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EmoTracker
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Kauz 2018-09-29 21:15
nope, just did it right now
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EmoSaru 2018-09-29 21:15
hmm, I'm trying to remember if that's consistent with vanilla superbunny or not
21:16
because if not, I'm gonna confirm that that behavior is staying (and not a rom bug)
21:16
before adding it as a sequence break option
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Kauz 2018-09-29 21:16
ill check in glitched modes in the rando discord. tojso and glan are super knowledgable on all that junk lol
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EmoSaru 2018-09-29 21:17
I'm more interested in checking with karkat and e.g. kc on whether it's expected to stay in inverted
21:17
I'll DM karkat now
21:24
just checked in the practice hack, it's vanilla
21:24
technically requires master sword or better as well tho
21:24
because you need beams
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 21:24
Can't use boomerang as superbunny?
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EmoSaru 2018-09-29 21:24
nope
21:24
sword, boots, push blocks
21:25
and open chests
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 21:25
Shame. Would be amazing if boomerang was actually useful for once. 😛
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Kauz 2018-09-29 21:30
ya was about to mention
21:31
would require minimum level 2 sword because thats the only projectile superbunny can use
21:33
this seed is testing my patience tho... still havent found pearl. its been great for trying out inverted but I feel like I missed something stupid at this point :/ at least superbunny came out of it 😄
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EmoSaru 2018-09-29 21:35
It's a good find - will be added as a sequence break in the next pack update
21:35
it's also interesting that stairs not resetting superbunny is basically never a thing in vanilla, lol
21:36
like, it works, but as far as I can tell, gets you nothing
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Kauz 2018-09-29 21:37
it just begs the question of is it worthwhile
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EmoSaru 2018-09-29 21:37
That's similar to most sequence breaks
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Kauz 2018-09-29 21:37
if you're at the point of superbunnying that like I was you're desperately trying to find pearl
21:37
and pearl won't be there
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EmoSaru 2018-09-29 21:38
I see this as no different than storing waterwalk to grab the zora ledge item
21:38
finicky AF, possibly beneficial
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Kauz 2018-09-29 21:38
i mean, it totally was i the seed Im in. tempered, sword, and quake unlocking TR and Mire
21:38
and bow
21:39
but bomb and arrow paradox cave will probably be my next 5 lol
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LostThePirate 2018-09-29 23:26
Thank you for all your work on the OoTR tracker, Hamsda!
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Aeralis 2018-09-29 23:47
Albeit not usually beneficial, superbunny can be used for all sorts of nice shenanigans. Like first four chests in Kak well.
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EmoSaru 2018-09-29 23:50
yeah, that one is fixed already, and will be in the next pack update
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Hamsda 2018-09-30 09:18
you're welcome, Lost 😃
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LostThePirate 2018-09-30 12:47
Just a clarification - what are the clickable dungeon names in the latest update for? Are they to note if you've full cleared something, or what? I can't figure out the purpose...
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-09-30 12:47
Latest update of what? EmoTracker, the base application? A particular pack?
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LostThePirate 2018-09-30 12:48
Hamsda's OoTR package. (Sorry I didn't specify)
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Natalie 2018-09-30 12:48
That's supposed to be for toggling dungeons between MQ and vanilla
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-09-30 12:48
#pack-announcements says to toggle between base game and Master Quest.
12:48
Yes, that.
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LostThePirate 2018-09-30 12:49
Oh, sorry, I must've not registered that part. Ok, thanks :)
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Hamsda 2018-09-30 20:10
yeah it just swaps access between MQ and vanilla dungeons
20:10
I made them individual for mixed mode
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Sal the Dragon 2018-09-30 21:28
not really support, but I wasn't sure where else to put this.
21:30
I would like to suggest to @Hamsda to put the "GC" down below with GTG, BOTW, and ICE, and to put "Free" back below the medallion/stone in links pocket. it might get confusing to some people to have GC below a medallion/stone
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Hamsda 2018-09-30 21:49
hmm, not sure if I have a way to fit that in nicely
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Sal the Dragon 2018-09-30 21:50
I mean, I'm okay with it I just think that other people might not be
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JRJathome 2018-09-30 21:52
For what it's worth, there's been other comments with similar confusion before, so you're not the first to ask about it.
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-01 02:24
one more thing. Since the OoT rando defaultly assumes you get scarecrows song, I have longshot and bow and the tracker doesnt say I can get to the fire arrow spot (without having beaten water temple) @Hamsda
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Hamsda 2018-10-01 02:35
right click the ocarina
02:36
added scarecrow toggle to ocarina and checks for it
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-01 02:36
well I'm gonna go back to school and re-learn how to read XD
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Hamsda 2018-10-01 10:10
maybe I shouldve mentioned it separately
10:10
or make them at least sb/yellow if the scarecrow isnt checked
10:10
so people dont get confused 😃
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-01 10:28
Haha maybe carlLove Some of them anyways. Like the lab roof doesn't have to be because beans, but the fire arrow island for sure
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Hamsda 2018-10-01 10:40
i mean they still have their other access possibilities, like beating water for FA spot, but right now I made the scarecrow mark a hard requirement where it previously was just ocarina in the assumption you have activated it
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Vivi 2018-10-01 11:17
I just read the potential to add some of the superbunny sequence break to the tracker. There are so many more of them that could be added that it begs the question. Should they? most of them are out of the way location where the moon pearl cannot be which makes them really unatractive options
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JRJathome 2018-10-01 11:18
I think they should be shown regardless. It's up to players to determine if those sequence breaks are actually useful and worth the time to get. (edited)
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Ninban 2018-10-01 11:19
I'm with JR on this. I prefer to have perfect info than being dumb
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Vivi 2018-10-01 11:20
ill start making a list then
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-01 11:52
Hey @SauceRelic someone in the MP rando Discord brought up something. There's a missile expansion location in Crossway in the Chozo Ruins that, in vanilla, requires the super missiles to get to. He doesn't have super missiles but the square comes up green anyways. Is the Space Jump Boot Strat intended or is it a gltich/cheese?
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SauceRelic 2018-10-01 11:53
I actually noticed that in one of my playthroughs yesterday. It'll be fixed in the next update, but i did look at the randomizer logic and it does say it only needs normal missiles
11:53
Which means there's an extremely rare chance of an unbeatable seed
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rand(0) 2018-10-01 11:53
yeh its a bug in the rando logic
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SauceRelic 2018-10-01 11:53
For glitchless anyways
11:55
I did see the randomizer creator was going to update some logic things fairly soon so I'll get my fixes so far out tonight and not worry about the actual logic for this one
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Vivi 2018-10-01 12:47
On the top of my head these are all the items that are sequence breakable by using superbunny/dungeon link revival. As I said, there is a ton of stuff sequence breakable, lots of them are out of the way, they cant contain moon pearl. Maybe have a toggle option to see or not see sequence breakable option on the tracker ?
12:47
Image attachment
12:53
this is for inverted mode btw, just so that it is clear
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Aeralis 2018-10-01 12:54
Why not all seven for Paradox Cave?
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Vivi 2018-10-01 12:54
cannot use bomb
12:58
I might have missed some also, feel free to add some feedback
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:18
for the dungeons
13:18
are you relying on death abuse there?
13:18
I don't think the bunny can use the bow...
13:19
also, is the suggestion here (asking because I'm not sure) that super bunny persists when exiting a drop down cave into the overworld? because otherwise I don't see how e.g. library, blind's hut, etc. works (edited)
13:20
I haven't tested it, which is why I'm asking
13:20
ah, nvm I missed your note about death abuse (edited)
13:20
death abuse is very much not super bunny, and not something I've ever included as an option
13:21
it's so far out of logic as to be more misleading than valuable, IMO
13:21
legitimate super bunny breaks though, sure
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Vivi 2018-10-01 13:24
Link death revival and super bunny are 2 very similar glitch. As I have said I'm all for not including these in the tracker
13:25
they have very very low likelihood of being useful, and they 100% slow your Moon pearl
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:25
I am interested in how super bunny allows access to the library
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Vivi 2018-10-01 13:26
you use the mirror on the very same frame you enter any location and it puts you in the super bunny state
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:26
ah, okay, it's that one
13:26
gotcha
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Vivi 2018-10-01 13:26
thats how you get access to blinds hut, back of tavern ...
13:28
I mean if moon pearl is on the blacksmith, you might as well check the library. If you find a progression Item there, well youre saving up a trip to the library, but most of these arent very routing-friendly
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:28
Okay, just double-checked that I had opted to include that break in mire shed in my other packs
13:28
I did
13:28
So I'll add the kakariko ones
13:28
for inverted
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Vivi 2018-10-01 13:31
Although the 2 lost woods item one is the most important sequence break IMO, since it lets you full clear the lost wood region, it has a very limited opportunity
13:32
you need to go there after getting the bottle vendor item
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:34
how are you retaining superbunny on the overworld for that one?
13:35
like, where are you triggering it, and why do you still have it?
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Vivi 2018-10-01 13:36
any time you acquire a free standing item you get super bunny state
13:36
getting the bottle vendor item puts you in that state
13:36
you keep it until you bonk/take damage/enter a cave or entrance
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:37
wow, that's completely fucked
13:37
okay
13:37
that one's reasonable to add
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Vivi 2018-10-01 13:37
its a good one to know. but if you dont go there after getting your bottle vendor item, youre not getting it back
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:38
the problem is I don't have a good way to restrict that logically
13:38
hmm
13:38
on second thought, I might not add that one
13:38
because I can't understand the difference between "got bottle vendor and heading straight there" and "got bottle vendor" or "tried and got hit"
13:39
like, the tracker can't understand
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Aeralis 2018-10-01 13:39
aeraliThink
13:40
Have them disappear after Bottle Vendor is collected?
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:40
That doesn't work
13:40
Because you HAVE to clear bottle vendor to do it
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Aeralis 2018-10-01 13:40
Is it fair to assume players need rudimentary knowledge in order to be attempting it?
13:41
Not including seems to be a far easier option, for sure.
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:41
It already assumes that
13:41
The problem is one of usage and data validity
13:41
Either a) you track bottle vendor and they immediately disappear, or b) they are yellow forever regardless of possibility
13:41
neither are good
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Espeon 2018-10-01 13:42
i would say to not include it because it's something you can lock yourself out of like fake powder
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:42
I mean, fake powder is included, but that's because it's possible to track correctly
13:42
so long as players click through to X out the mushroom
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Vivi 2018-10-01 13:44
the 3 items in the back of sahashrala can be gotten with mirror+boots too, I forgot to add that one to the spreadsheet
13:44
theres so many possibility
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:44
so long as they can reliably be indicated correctly, I have no problem with adding them
13:44
the death abuse aside
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Vivi 2018-10-01 13:47
mushroom has the same requirement as lost woods, so do not add that one
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:47
yeah
13:47
already noticed that
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Vivi 2018-10-01 13:47
all the other ones (besides hyrule castle, eastern, desert and desert ledge are simple superbunny state either by falling in a hole or using mirror
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:48
yeah, and all of those are slam dunks for adding
13:48
thanks for putting together the list
13:48
this has been interesting
13:48
there are so many things that are possible, but weirdly became far more prevalent with inverted
13:49
TBH, I think it kinda breaks the game, not for the best
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Vivi 2018-10-01 13:49
yeah, it has the "entrance randomizer" super bunny adventure aspect to it
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:49
because the light world is contiguously connected, more or less without any requirements
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Vivi 2018-10-01 13:49
yeah, light world access gives you access to sooo much (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:50
I'm kinda expecting a bunch of initial enthusiasm for it, and then I think it gets boring for most people after a month or two
13:50
it's a low% early game that leads into wide open
13:50
kind of the worst kind of seed, and it happens more or less every time
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Vivi 2018-10-01 13:51
I think it is a fun mode, but its volatility is through the roof
13:51
which makes me wonder why it was added to the tourney since the decided to remove the other volatile mode
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:51
don't even get me started on that...
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Vivi 2018-10-01 13:51
I mean, you get access to 120 locations at the 30 minutes mark, the route will be sooo different
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EmoSaru 2018-10-01 13:52
I don't particularly like the non-solutions being applied to address volatility in the modes they DID include
13:52
hints are a waste of time and don't actually solve any of the real problems
13:52
but anyway
13:52
we should probably take this to general or off-topic for that
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LostThePirate 2018-10-01 15:41
@Hamsda - if possible, maybe make the Scarecrow toggle progressive? So you can mark it as a kid and mark it again as an adult?
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Hamsda 2018-10-01 15:41
the toggle on the ocarina itself can't be sadly
15:42
I could probably make a hack to add locations for it though
15:42
which should be able to auto toggle it
15:43
similar to how I made the bean patches now
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LostThePirate 2018-10-01 15:44
Ok, was just an idea. I don't know how all of the stuff works together, I just enjoy it and encourage others to use your package
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Hamsda 2018-10-01 15:45
basically if the left click is progressive instead of a toggle, the right click can only be a toggle (compare ocarina vs the dungeon prizes)
15:45
but yeah, the location is probably a good idea, that should help if people dont realize the new scarecrow badge
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LostThePirate 2018-10-01 15:46
And yes, being able to specifically put the bean locations you've actually accessed and planted beans at into logic is very handy, thank you for that addition.
15:47
*into logic for the adult checks
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Hamsda 2018-10-01 15:48
yeah I really like it myself, especially if you actually keep track of your bean count and see where you can still plant
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LostThePirate 2018-10-01 15:49
I'm one of those 'attention span of a goldfish' players who really utilizes all the available utility from the map tracker, so extra features like that are especially helpful for me.
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Hamsda 2018-10-01 15:51
yeah I have the same issue from time to time
15:51
cat comes in and distracts me -> "what did I want to do?"
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LostThePirate 2018-10-01 15:52
I'm a Pins power-user, lol - they help me keep focused and not get a distracted by whatever new shiny item I've most recently picked up!
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Hamsda 2018-10-01 16:00
yeah I pin my route as well
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-01 22:12
so I'm playing a Metroid Prime seed on stream right now and none of the item squares are showing up @SauceRelic
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-10-01 22:16
F11 to show all squares. Otherwise, you need more gear.
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-01 22:17
I'm pressing F11 and nothing is shwoing up. right off the bat I know that at least one or two item checks are available but nothing is there
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JRJathome 2018-10-01 22:21
Can confirm no locations are showing with the latest update.
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-01 22:21
with just this map package or the whole of emotracker?
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JRJathome 2018-10-01 22:22
The pack
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-01 22:22
well shit lol
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JRJathome 2018-10-01 22:22
Other map packs still show locations.
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-01 22:22
i was so excited to stream MP rando (edited)
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-10-01 22:24
Dev Console says there's a parse error pooching the whole thing.
22:24
Missing a comma at line 1427 of locations.json. (edited)
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-01 22:29
well thats not what you want
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EmoSaru 2018-10-02 00:00
Always test before deploying 😉
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Hamsda 2018-10-02 00:08
using an IDE that just tells one about these errors would be too easy rooSmug
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JRJathome 2018-10-02 00:16
I'm just glad EmoTracker no longer crashes entirely when you forget a comma.
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Natalie 2018-10-02 00:19
Can we bring back that behavior? 🤔
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EmoSaru 2018-10-02 00:22
Nope 😊
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scatter 2018-10-02 06:23
looking specifically at jrjathome's oot items only tracker, although i've noticed it in a few packs - why/how are there only images for numbers 0-5?
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Hamsda 2018-10-02 06:28
because only those were needed for the numbers on wallets/bow/etc
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scatter 2018-10-02 06:30
where does it get the numbers for item counts then?
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Hamsda 2018-10-02 06:31
thats built into emotracker
06:31
everything defined as consumable has those
06:32
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386962380548079619/457645931626627072/Nintendo_64_-_The_Legend_of_Zelda_Ocarina_of_Time_-_Game_Text.png if you need the other numbers
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scatter 2018-10-02 06:32
ty 😊
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Hamsda 2018-10-02 06:32
dunno where JRJ got that from originally ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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JRJathome 2018-10-02 07:21
Spriters Resource
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SauceRelic 2018-10-02 08:57
Woops, must've messed something up, will fix in a jiffy
08:59
Should see it in a sec
09:00
Made the mistake of not testing since it was such a small update
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Lechtansi 2018-10-02 15:06
hey, for the standard LTTP tracker, is there a way to mark a chest we can't get yet? Like, if i get a hint that says "mimic cave has some couch change", i would to be able to mark mimic cave as "checked", even though i can't technically access it. if i hit f11 to show mimic cave, i can't affect the chest
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Natalie 2018-10-02 15:07
https://puu.sh/BEHXd.png
Embedded image
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Lechtansi 2018-10-02 15:08
perfect thanks!
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Natalie 2018-10-02 15:08
(also, ew, hints in lttp. game's too short to really need hints)
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Komori 2018-10-02 22:33
@Hamsda I found a flaw where the tracker says that the MQ spirit temple compass chest isn't accessible without gauntlets and longshot. Neither of which are needed cause you can do this as a child. I haven't tested how many additionial chests have this flaw. This is just one that was obvious to me.
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Hamsda 2018-10-02 22:54
I'll take a look
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Komori 2018-10-02 23:02
also the longshot isn't needed for the gerudo scarecrow chest. You need to be on the edge, but hookshot works fine
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Natalie 2018-10-02 23:03
I'm going to point and laugh and tell you that you need to enable the Scarecrow's Song on the ocarina right-click trigger.
23:06
That's what enables the Rooftop Chest showing up without the Longshot.
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Komori 2018-10-02 23:06
oh. Mb :3 That wasn't very obvious though
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Natalie 2018-10-02 23:07
tbh I'm not sure why that isn't a tracked item accessible by marking off the Scarecrow as child and adult
23:08
Although this does turn into another... semi-valid reason for a tooltip-type hint. Perhaps it can be placed on the bottom bar (where it's out of the way) as a learning aid for the initial use of the tracker packages? (edited)
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Komori 2018-10-02 23:10
true. I also wouldn't have known that the pack supported MQ if someone didn't tell me xd
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JRJathome 2018-10-02 23:11
It was mentioned in #pack-announcements. But I agree, I'm still waiting for the ability to include a pack changelog that shows each time you update.
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Komori 2018-10-02 23:13
True, but not everyone uses the discord, but yeah and In app changelog would fix that easily (edited)
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Natalie 2018-10-02 23:15
on that subject, @Hamsda: consider something that better clues in that you can actually toggle the dungeon name labels to switch vanilla/MQ?
23:16
"intuitive" means that you can understand the function without experimentation
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Tekky 2018-10-02 23:16
you know what
23:16
i'm just going to delete that then
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Natalie 2018-10-02 23:17
not sure what can make it better, other than making the labels a bit taller and building a 32x16 icon below the labels
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Tekky 2018-10-02 23:17
it's streamlined
23:17
how about that
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Hamsda 2018-10-02 23:40
I don't think there is a solution that is intuitive for this, besides changing how it is designed entirely
23:40
regarding scarecrow: I'll change things around a bit probably
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-03 00:47
hey @SauceRelic the incinerator drone is showing up as blue on the tracker, even though I have full access to this battle
00:50
never mind lol its cause i dont have the bombs to get myself out
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JP | BrewersFanJP 2018-10-03 01:03
@EmoSaru Note for your inverted pack, if it hasn't been noted already. I was using it when trying an inverted seed tonight. Turtle Rock was marked as completable, but I didn't have mirror and Big Key was on laser bridge. I believe Turtle Rock is a special case where you might need Mirror to clear, but not all of the time. (Sorry if that's already been noted. FWIW, I did update the pack before using it.)
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EmoSaru 2018-10-03 01:12
Was it green or yellow?
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JP | BrewersFanJP 2018-10-03 01:30
It was green
01:32
I had the medallion to enter through the front and all the usual items to clear it normally (both rods, Hammer, Somaria)
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Natalie 2018-10-03 02:05
cape and byrna are also valid for laser bridge js
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ozipone 2018-10-03 02:41
What does cape and byrna have to do with the fact that the key was locked in the back part so you need to mirror to the bridge? (edited)
👍 1
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-03 03:01
okay @SauceRelic this one is for real. unless im being dumb again. it says the vanilla gravity suit location is attainable, yet I'd need boost ball to come from the observatory and ice beam to come from the elevator to magmoor
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Natalie 2018-10-03 03:47
@ozipone you can blame the existence of mirror shield for that
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SauceRelic 2018-10-03 04:36
@Sal the Dragon that's another problem with the randomizer logic. Doesn't check for ice beam for some reason
04:43
I'll try to fix it tonight, I got assignments due the rest of the day
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Hamsda 2018-10-03 04:48
@Komori I assume you were playing keysanity when you noticed that flaw? or at least using my keysanity package? as I wasn't quite sure about key requirements, I used the ones provided by logic (which would be all 7 in the case of this chest, so an amount you couldnt even enter because key counts are not updated yet)
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Komori 2018-10-03 04:49
@Hamsda correct.
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Hamsda 2018-10-03 04:49
okay, those should work in the next update when I actually put in the minimal key requirements
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Komori 2018-10-03 04:50
although the thing I found peculiar is it expected me to have adult items for a child chest. I didn't change the key number, but when I added the items then it showed as availble
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Hamsda 2018-10-03 04:50
"sword2,lift2,longshot,bombchu,bow", "ocarina,requiem,bombchu,spirit_small_keys:7,sling"
04:50
adult doesn't have a key requirement, but child does
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Komori 2018-10-03 04:51
ah that makes sense now
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Hamsda 2018-10-03 04:51
so once I put in the correct key count for child, it should behave as expected
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Komori 2018-10-03 04:52
why is the key count capped at 5 though?
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Hamsda 2018-10-03 04:52
because thats the maximum in vanilla for spirit small keys
04:52
I hadn't updated those yet
04:52
they will likely just be max(vanilla, mq)
04:52
as theres no way for me to make that dynamic
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Komori 2018-10-03 04:53
hopefully it won't get too cluttered
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-03 16:52
Lol @SauceRelic funny thing is, I then went to fight Thardus and check the cave in the back of that room, and I found ice beam in that cave XD
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SauceRelic 2018-10-03 17:14
So the gravity suit check was actually my bad, just didn't see the ice beam somehow
17:14
Already updated as well
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WesSideVandal 2018-10-03 21:07
ALttPR Inverted Mode doesn't consider Mire in logic until you have hookshot when it is accessible with mirror+boots, jsyk Emo
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JRJathome 2018-10-03 21:10
I'm seeing it available even without hookshot. Could you post a screenshot? I'm interested to see which items you have selected.
21:16
Possibly unrelated but I noticed another oddity. With all items except glove marked, Swamp Palace doesn't show until I mark mitts. But then it correctly stays green after that, even if I unmark both lift upgrades. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-10-03 21:42
Hmm, that’s strange
21:42
I’ll take a look
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EmoSaru 2018-10-03 23:55
I can't reproduce either of those issues, and I'm reliably able to see swamp accessible like this...
Image attachment
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JRJathome 2018-10-04 00:15
I wonder if it's some oddity with my override. Shouldn't be though. I didn't touch the location json at all.
00:15
I'll see if I can recreate it tomorrow and make a gif.
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EmoSaru 2018-10-04 00:17
yeah, order might be important
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Vivi 2018-10-04 01:17
I was also unable to reproduce these 2 issues while playing with the tracker
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Herreteman 2018-10-04 19:57
@gonutz89 Continuing here, the tracker is not missing any dungeon chests, it's just that small key chests are not randomized and so they are not listed
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[I'MGAY] laura 2018-10-04 21:13
hi, can anyone help with hamsda tracker for oot? I need to know how to adjust locations that I can't click on
21:15
I got my answer elswhere, it's f11 if anyone else has this problem, thanks
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Natalie 2018-10-04 21:20
F11 only shows every location on the map (edited)
21:20
you'll need to use this menu option to manipulate normally disabled interactions (red locations) https://puu.sh/BEHXd.png
Embedded image
21:20
but if all you need to do is "oops, I marked one too many, I need that back", all you need is F11
21:22
F11 is well documented in the #faq
21:22
the existence of Always Allow Chest Manipulation, I believe, is not.
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JRJathome 2018-10-04 22:10
Emo: For the inverted pack, Swamp is still hidden with these items selected. It seems to have something to do with the order I mark them because sometimes it appears and sometimes doesn't. Marking an addition item seems to also fix it. Even the go mode icon.
Image attachment
22:11
Let me remove my override and see if that changes anything.
22:13
Well it sort of changed something. Marking Aga now fixes it every time.
22:14
Image attachment
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EmoSaru 2018-10-04 22:14
well, aga is required with that set of items
22:14
for light world access
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JRJathome 2018-10-04 22:14
Oh right
22:14
Not sure why my picture overrides would mess it up though.
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EmoSaru 2018-10-04 22:15
are you sure nothing else was overriden?
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JRJathome 2018-10-04 22:16
Not for that variant. I had an override for the items only layouts and for init.lua in order to add some extra items in a separate json.
22:21
Ah. I think I found the issue. You added something to init.lua since I added the override.
22:24
Yeah, that seems to have fixed it. Sorry about that.
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WesSideVandal 2018-10-04 23:24
I figured out that I had forgotten to mark that the required medallion was in fact required in regards to my "glitch" earlier
23:24
so since there was still a 66% chance I didn't have access the tracker rightfully did not pull up the location
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JRJathome 2018-10-04 23:26
Ah yes. That's a common error to make. 😃
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LostThePirate 2018-10-08 14:37
Hamsda, I saw you just pushed an update, so I don't know if this is already fixed, but it isn't in the notes so just double checking... I played a seed yesterday, and when checking off that I'd done the second scarecrow interaction as an adult, it advanced my Ocarina from Fairy to OoT. ...Pretty sure it isn't supposed to do that.
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JRJathome 2018-10-08 14:42
Can confirm. Not sure why he's got the ocarina hosted there instead of the badge icon. 🤔
14:43
Oh wait. It is the badge icon which includes the ocarina.
14:43
You just have to right-click it instead of left-clicking.
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LostThePirate 2018-10-08 14:46
Ah. ...That's not especially intuitive, haha, but if that's how it works then that's how it works.
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JRJathome 2018-10-08 14:49
Yeah, this is probably a case for making Scarecrow's Song its own item instead of sharing space with the ocarina.
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Hamsda 2018-10-08 23:39
yeah if you just click off the location on the map, it correctly goes to the badge
23:39
but if you pin it and actually click on the item, it behaves like the item would in the regular items layout
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EmoSaru 2018-10-08 23:40
Hmmm
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Hamsda 2018-10-08 23:40
I assume its pretty much intended this way, because other hosted items behave the same (see a hosted dungeon)
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EmoSaru 2018-10-08 23:40
What kind of item are you hosting?
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Hamsda 2018-10-08 23:40
in this case a badged item
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EmoSaru 2018-10-08 23:41
My suggestion - host a toggle, and convert your badged item to a composite toggle instead (edited)
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Hamsda 2018-10-08 23:41
that would result in the exact same behavior or might even break the intended behavior of toggling the badge
23:42
because the dungeon items (which are set up that way) do exactly that
23:42
they get a left click, which they should
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EmoSaru 2018-10-08 23:42
Right, but my understanding is you want a right click?
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Hamsda 2018-10-08 23:42
yeah, which it gets when clicking off the location
23:43
and when its pinned one can decide to left or right click
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EmoSaru 2018-10-08 23:43
right, so using a composite toggle, but hosting the underlying toggle for the badge, would do it
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Hamsda 2018-10-08 23:43
not really interested in the composite toggles
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EmoSaru 2018-10-08 23:43
Fair enough
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Hamsda 2018-10-08 23:44
don't like basically having to make them greyscale when the entire pack is non greyscale
23:44
because they look kinda weird without it
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EmoSaru 2018-10-08 23:44
I don’t think you have to?
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Hamsda 2018-10-08 23:44
well you have to define the halved images
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EmoSaru 2018-10-08 23:44
You get to specify the images for every combination
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Hamsda 2018-10-08 23:44
so what would you do with the "off" side
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EmoSaru 2018-10-08 23:45
That’s up to you, but for example, just display the “item with no badge”
23:45
You can use the overlay image filter now
23:45
It can literally look exactly like your badged item
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Hamsda 2018-10-08 23:46
i'll have to look into it, but the current behavior is what I expected
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EmoSaru 2018-10-08 23:46
Kk
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Hamsda 2018-10-08 23:46
so I'm kinda contempt to change it
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EmoSaru 2018-10-08 23:46
If it’s doing what you want/expect then 👍
23:46
I may have misinterpreted
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Hamsda 2018-10-08 23:46
but if more people find it weird, i'll have to look for a better way, yeah
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JRJathome 2018-10-08 23:50
The other problem with composite toggle is the ocarina is currently a progressive item. Not a toggle.
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EmoSaru 2018-10-08 23:52
Ah, yeah
23:52
That’s a tough one
23:52
I could look into adding progressive support there
23:52
But it would need to have loop set
23:52
Because there’d be no right click for it
23:52
Since that goes to the other item
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Vivi 2018-10-09 18:42
sooo should we add the single arrow to the tracker now that it is slightly important to track it /s
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EmoSaru 2018-10-09 18:47
ugh
18:47
I literally hate hints
18:48
for making stupid shit like tracking single arrow borderline justifiable
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Vivi 2018-10-09 18:56
lool
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Lechtansi 2018-10-09 19:47
since every item location is now possibly a place you have to remember theres an item for, i just write it down
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EmoSaru 2018-10-09 21:32
That’s an area where the eventual work I’m doing for co-op will help. I don’t want to say much more than that while plans are still in flux though.
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Linebeck 2018-10-09 22:12
@Hamsda Is there a way to turn off the Blue Stone of Agony checks in your Map Tracker? Other than removing it from the checked items
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-09 22:37
The fact that they're blue is on EmoTracker, not the package, really. Plus, why would you want to remove them if you haven't actually checked them yet?
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Natalie 2018-10-09 23:02
Why would you want to turn off the hint locations?
23:02
OoTR has a valid reason to have hints.
23:02
Literally just don't enable the Stone of Agony if you're playing hintsless. Probrem sorved.
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Linebeck 2018-10-10 00:31
Problem is that some of them overlap with other checks, and right clicking on them on the map removes all checks there (edited)
00:32
Which is fine with dungeons, but becomes a bit much with overworld locations
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Natalie 2018-10-10 00:37
why are you right clicking entire locations when you know there are multiple items there and you can only get [a hint for] one of them
00:37
this is quickly turning into a farce of user error
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Linebeck 2018-10-10 00:38
Because I did it on accident yes
00:38
But seems that it's a bit of a flaw if right clicking on a location removes even out of logic checks
00:39
But whatever, I'll know for next time
00:43
Should've realised it was just me being stupid and worthless
00:43
I'm sorry
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LostThePirate 2018-10-10 00:47
All of us learned to use it with a certain degree of trial and error, as the instructions are a bit sparse; it'll get easier with practice. Lessons learned for next time. And hey, you still beat me... ;)
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Linebeck 2018-10-10 00:48
Yeah
00:48
That seed was terrible
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LostThePirate 2018-10-10 00:48
Agreed.
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Linebeck 2018-10-10 00:49
And in the end, I only have myself to blame
00:49
But at least I'll know in the future
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EmoSaru 2018-10-10 00:52
Right clicking clears everything that’s currently clearable. “Inspectable” locations are deliberately clearable, so that you can mark them off if they’re junk. Any sections that are inspectable, sequence breakable, or full clearable are cleared on right click. Things that are inaccessible are not cleared on right click.
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Linebeck 2018-10-10 00:54
Yeah
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Hamsda 2018-10-10 02:58
yeah the one flaw currently, at least from ootr perspective (it has been discussed in here before), is that a location with 1 blue and 1 red section will show up as orange instead of blue, which can be a bit confusing as you can't really do anything there (because inspecting in oot doesn't really mean go there and have a look like in lttpr).
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EmoSaru 2018-10-10 10:05
yeah, I'm still thinking about that one
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-10 15:03
@SauceRelic what do you mean new format for your package?
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SauceRelic 2018-10-10 15:04
Behind the scenes stuff mostly. Doesn't change anything user-wise until I implement variants and possibly scripts
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-10 15:06
Ah, so nothing I really have to worry about then?
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JRJathome 2018-10-10 15:13
Worth noting that because the package name and UID was changed, you'll have to install the package from the package manager again or EmoTracker won't tell you there's updates.
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-10 15:17
For all packages?
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JRJathome 2018-10-10 15:18
Just the Metroid Prime package.
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SauceRelic 2018-10-10 15:20
Yup sorry, if I hadn't changed it like this now I would've been changing it every time the randomizer updated which would've been worse (edited)
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JRJathome 2018-10-10 15:22
Basically, the old package manifest listed its UID as "mp1rando_v0_3_0_saucerelic". The new pack in the package manager has "mp1rando_saucerelic". Because they don't match, EmoTracker assumes it's a different package than the one you already have, so it won't alert you to updates. (edited)
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-10 21:39
@SauceRelic is it me or is there more wave beam doors in Phendrana in the new tracker?
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SauceRelic 2018-10-10 21:47
What do you mean
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shortstuff518 2018-10-10 21:47
lettuce... lettuce is what sour means
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-10 21:47
Like, I was looking at the Phendrana map and on the right half i feel like theres more purple doors than i remember
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SauceRelic 2018-10-10 21:48
Should be exactly the same, none of the images were changed
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-10 21:48
then I'm just crazy XD
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SauceRelic 2018-10-10 21:48
Haven't even changed the map images since release at all
21:48
So yeah it's just you 😛
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Espeon 2018-10-12 06:41
@Herreteman Couple of things i noticed in my last play of oos rando: - Tracker does not show the Sunken City 3 waterfall chests as available if Sunken City season is winter and you can reach it through Natzu - Tracker does not show D1 available unless you have both sword/ore and key, but logic expects you to go there with just bombs and key
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-12 07:03
Well to be fair, bombs aren't on the tracker since you can easily farm a few Rupees and buy some at the shop so that could explain that one
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Herreteman 2018-10-12 07:18
It's more complicated than that
07:20
Bomb D1 is a super specific thing that I always forgot to add and it will be removed from normal logic in 2.2, it's weird to do because the dungeon checks for items that can kill enemies so I need to decouple the bombs from that to be accurate
07:22
What Natzu animal did you have in the first case? @Espeon
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Espeon 2018-10-12 07:22
moosh
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Herreteman 2018-10-12 07:22
I'll check that specific case when I get home
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Herreteman 2018-10-12 07:30
As a side note, a bomb icon will probably be added soon now that I have another extra icon to make it symmetrical
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Herreteman 2018-10-12 11:36
@Espeon I'm not getting any issues with Sunken in Winter, did you update the tracker to the latest version?
11:36
If not, I'm gonna need every specific item you had, because all access routes seem to work (edited)
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Espeon 2018-10-12 12:36
feather, bracelet, moosh's flute north horon: autumn holodrum plain: spring sunken city: winter western coast: autumn natzu: set to moosh (edited)
12:36
i also had the master's plaque but that shouldn't affect whether you can get the item left of the master
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Herreteman 2018-10-12 12:47
Yup, it's showing on my end
12:48
I hotfixed an issue with Natzu and didn't really announce it in #pack-announcements so you may have missed it
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Espeon 2018-10-12 12:48
doesn't show up on the package installer 🤔
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Herreteman 2018-10-12 12:49
Check manifest on the tracker package and tell me the package version
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Espeon 2018-10-12 12:49
1.4.0.0
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Herreteman 2018-10-12 12:50
Ok, 1.4.0.1 was supposed to be uploaded
12:50
I'll ask about that
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chenzikoden 2018-10-12 17:06
I've found a logic error in the Inverted Pack. It shows Ice Palace as completable with no glove upgrades. You need at least the Power Gloves to get to two chests and Kholdstare
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EmoSaru 2018-10-12 18:34
good catch, I will get it added
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Lechtansi 2018-10-13 10:49
hey @EmoSaru , whats the requirement for escape chests? i thought it was just lamp, but when i have lamp it shows escape as being yellow unless i have the gloves (edited)
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JRJathome 2018-10-13 10:51
This is because the sewer key could be in the back chests. In which case, the only way to get back there is using the gloves.
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Lechtansi 2018-10-13 10:53
right, i forgot about that. thanks JR
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JRJathome 2018-10-13 10:58
Easy to forget. It's a slight flaw in map trackers. Since they can't read your rom to know where keys are, they have to account for the worst key placement, thus showing as full clearable only if you have all the required items.
11:00
I suppose in cases like that, it might make more sense to use the keysanity tracker. Marking lamp and castle key shows escape as full clearable without the gloves. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-10-13 11:00
I wouldn't say "flaw", I'd just say "they're map trackers, not map solvers" 😃 (edited)
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Lechtansi 2018-10-13 11:04
yeah. it was just a bad brain moment on my part, totally forgot about that
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Lechtansi 2018-10-14 15:23
hey, i just had a seed where Ice, Mire and TR were pendants, so my item requirements before ganons tower are pretty minimal. I had to think to myself "what do I even need to get into GT?". Is it possible to add in another square on the overworld, on GT, that lights up green if i have the mitts, bow, hookshot and fire rod, and lights up yellow if im missing the boots and red cane?
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-14 15:51
It would be helpful to tag whoever handles whatever package you're using. You also don't need red cane at all in GT
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Espeon 2018-10-14 16:03
to get certain items in GT, you need hookshot, bow, somaria, a fire source, or boots
16:04
i think that kind of "GT indicator" would actually be pretty good
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Lechtansi 2018-10-14 16:45
i guess it could go in customization support, thanks
16:45
and @Sal the Dragon you need the red cane to do right side of ganon tower
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-16 23:45
hey @Herreteman dungeon 8 still shows up subrosia and not holodrum like you mentioned in your update (don't worry I'm 100% sure i updated it)
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LostThePirate 2018-10-17 00:14
@Hamsda Found a logic problem for Spirit Temple Map chest today. With this equipment, it is not possible to open. https://prnt.sc/l6xude
Screenshot
Captured with Lightshot
Thumbnail
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Natalie 2018-10-17 00:25
looks like it's assuming you can just shoot an arrow through a torch
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Natalie 2018-10-17 00:42
Barring straight-up hovering, this is of course impossible.
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-17 00:55
hey @SauceRelic the item inside the pillar in Triclops pit is reachable with space jump boots but the square shows up red
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Natalie 2018-10-17 00:58
yes, I tried my best to get that fucking arrow to fire through the torch and hit the torch down below
00:58
yes, I believe that it's possible to light the second torch from the first before it extinguishes
00:58
but the first is outright impossible
00:59
so yeah, completely inaccessible
01:02
so unless someone else comes up with a semi-trivial glitch to raise the first person camera (as opposed to the usual lowering of the camera used in weirdshots) that map chest is definitely off limits.
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rand(0) 2018-10-17 02:15
pretty sure shooting down from above requires to hover on the height of the flame
02:15
https://youtu.be/tjg9Xo3E0h4?t=98
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Natalie 2018-10-17 02:30
Which is most certainly never going to be in logic and no other instance of isg hover exists in the sequence-break options in Hamsda's pack, so definitely just inaccessible
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-17 02:43
also, the item behind the ice in Transport Access in phendrana (in the room south of the magmoor south elevator) is marked as blue even though i can get to the room and have plasma beam
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Ninban 2018-10-17 03:51
Spirit Temple map chest I've seen it done by bringing the statue upstairs, climbing on it and shooting through the flame
03:52
Which is a totally glitchless way to do it with only bow
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Herreteman 2018-10-17 05:17
@Sal the Dragon It shows up in both maps, if that's what you mean
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zantomun 2018-10-17 06:28
hi, what do the + on crystals/pendants mean and do chests on pins include the map and compass chests on the map tracker?
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-10-17 06:38
+ on crystal typically means that it’s 5 or 6, the red ones, required to get the Super Bomb to blast open the wall in the side of the Pyramid of Power to access the Pyramid Fairy and her two treasure chests. + on pendant typically indicates that it’s the green one that you can turn in to Saha for an item.
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zantomun 2018-10-17 06:38
ah i thought so but wanted to confirm, thank you
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:38
@Ninban the fucking statue
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-10-17 06:38
Non-Keysanity packs do not include maps, keys nor compasses in Chest counts. (edited)
👍 1
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:39
i HATE armos statues this is the third time now they've done stupid shit like that
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rand(0) 2018-10-17 06:39
how do you get it up there 🤔
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:39
Push it up the stairs, apparently
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rand(0) 2018-10-17 06:39
didnt even know that was possible haha
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-10-17 06:39
Also, nerds.
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:41
@LostThePirate tl;dr re: above: move the armos statue and use it to shoot arrow through torch; @Hamsda re: same: no logic bug here carry on you should be able to use a backflip or sidehop to climb the statue once it's up there (edited)
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Herreteman 2018-10-17 06:41
@Sal the Dragon nvm, seems like I forgot to put it in for Normal Logic, whoops, I'll send a hotfix for it
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Espeon 2018-10-17 06:49
but it's possible :D
06:49
therefore in logic
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:49
somehow i forgot about the existence of that statue after blatantly abusing the cluster of armos statues in GC to complete spirit trial without hookshot 🤷
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Espeon 2018-10-17 06:49
don't you have to hover for that 🤔 or can adult hit the silver rupee without a hover off the beamos beam
06:50
idk i haven't seen spirit trial as adult in a while
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Hamsda 2018-10-17 06:50
@LostThePirate @Natalie yeah you can definitely do it without any glitches by pushing the armos statue up top. I don't think that is in logic though, so I should mark it as a sequence break if thats the case. thanks for letting me know you two 😃
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:50
actually, if you push the statues together in the right way, you can walk onto them with a stored ground jump
06:50
...and if you have them in JUST THE RIGHT SPOT
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Espeon 2018-10-17 06:50
??? good game
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:50
you can barely clip the rupee with it
06:51
the worst part about that is the rupee collection hitbox tbh
06:51
it took me way too long to do 🤷
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Hamsda 2018-10-17 06:51
you can even reach the rupee above the beamos as a child from the armos if you are in just the right spot
06:51
done in BQ quite often to get chus without anything
06:52
so adult can reach it for sure
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Espeon 2018-10-17 06:52
i didn't know that lol, i assumed you needed to hover
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Hamsda 2018-10-17 06:52
nah armos are useful
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:52
i suspect the collection hitbox is the same for child and adult then 🤔
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Hamsda 2018-10-17 06:52
see scarecrow GS in DC as well lol
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:52
no wonder it feels so terrible
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Hamsda 2018-10-17 06:53
I think adults is even larger
06:53
but not by much
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:53
🤷
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Hamsda 2018-10-17 06:53
also seeing that screen from lost, I should add the sequence break to torch puzzle in spirit with just bow
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Espeon 2018-10-17 06:53
wait you can get that without hookshot...?
06:53
unless i'm thinking of the wrong GS
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:53
arnos statue to below ledge
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Espeon 2018-10-17 06:54
oh yeah
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:54
climb statue, jump up
06:54
incredibly unintuitive
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Hamsda 2018-10-17 06:54
they really didnt expect people to climb on them LOL
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Espeon 2018-10-17 06:54
wait doesn't that need a weird dboost for something? it was part of an oot3d puzzle
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:54
backflip or sidehop on
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Espeon 2018-10-17 06:54
unless statue weirdness was changed between versions
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Natalie 2018-10-17 06:54
armos statues are stupid easy to climb in oot64
06:55
as evidenced by the fact that you can basically walk on if you position them right 🤷
06:55
at any rate this discussion's served its purpose
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SauceRelic 2018-10-17 07:51
@Sal the Dragon seen and will investigate soon, right now school is kicking my butt so it might be a day or 2
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Mihalo 2018-10-17 14:02
@Hamsda I found a logic error. Your tracker assumes that you cannot get into the Meadow Storms Grotto as child unless you have explosives or scale, and it also does not check for minuet or saria's as adult. (edited)
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Hamsda 2018-10-17 14:03
I'll take a look, haven't been playing much scrub shuffle lately
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SauceRelic 2018-10-18 10:28
@Sal the Dragon both of those checks require a visor in glitchless. Normal and hard without the visor make them accessible. I was going to make an option to skip visors only, but with the new randomizer build coming soon I'm waiting until I can see the new logic because I'll have to redo everything anyways.
10:29
The transport access in phendrana did have a wrong visibility check though so I'll fix that
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-18 10:52
Fair enough. I can't wait to see what you come up with
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-21 01:11
hey @SauceRelic the item in ruined courtyard showed up red for me even though its possible to get to the platform where the tunnel hole is by going up this spider ball track and using space jump to get to it
Image attachment
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SauceRelic 2018-10-21 14:37
Yeah I know about that one. On the stable build that's not in logic, so I'll probably add it as a sequence break in the next tracker version. (edited)
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-29 00:57
@SauceRelic i found something tonight. Quarantine Monitor in Phendrana, the little cave off from Thardus, is reachable from the south magmoor elevator if you have morph ball, wave beam, and grapple beam, but it shows up red on the map
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SauceRelic 2018-10-29 08:26
Yeah thats another one that requires thermal for no reason at all. Feeling like just making all of these sequence breakable for now
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Ninban 2018-10-29 10:56
@SauceRelic let's say I'm a casual and using your pack with the latest beta, and didn't enable any advanced logic stuff (or care about seq breaks yet), is it still mostly accurate?
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SauceRelic 2018-10-29 10:58
Should be. The original difficulty settings were basically like trick presets. Glitchless should still be accurate if you don't enable any tricks. but some of the sequence breaks i just implemented may be in logic for the beta.
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Ninban 2018-10-29 10:58
Hmm should be good then, thank you!
10:59
I must say getting plasma beam at the artifact site made combat a lot easier lol
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Tekky 2018-11-01 17:28
Hey Hamsda, is the Cracked Wall chest in Water Temple able to be done without ZL?
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-01 17:30
I can actually answer that
17:30
Yes, with a well timed bombchu
17:31
Then you need iron boots and the hookshot. Hookshot to the chest and spam the A button and it should let you open it
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Hamsda 2018-11-01 23:39
just as sourlyme said, though not in logic iirc
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Espeon 2018-11-02 13:28
@Herreteman oos bug report: the tracker doesn't account for having spring/ricky to go up the ledge leading from eastern suburbs to natzu, then to loop around through natzu using your animal to get over to holodrum plain
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Herreteman 2018-11-02 13:30
Weird. I'm sure I tested that
13:30
I'll look into it (edited)
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Herreteman 2018-11-03 07:24
@Espeon Tested this and it's not an issue, you may have forgotten to mark something, such as a way to get to the flower to actually go to Natzu (which requires winter, feather, or flippers, the latter being redundant) (edited)
07:25
If you're still confident that it's a bug, let me know what items you had exactly
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Espeon 2018-11-03 10:16
sword, slingshot + ember seeds, ricky's flute, rod of spring
10:16
relevant section of spoiler log:
hero's cave sword chest <- wooden/noble sword hero's cave rupee chest <- gnarled key D1 dungeon map chest <- (hyper) slingshot horon village seed tree <- ember seeds shop, 150 rupees <- rod of spring shop, 20 rupees <- bombs, 10 horon village SE chest <- ricky's flute blaino's gym <- round jewel floodgate keeper's house <- power bracelet
10:17
seasons, if they matter:
north horon <- spring western coast <- winter eastern suburbs <- spring woods of winter <- autumn spool swamp <- spring holodrum plain <- autumn sunken city <- spring lost woods <- autumn tarm ruins <- autumn temple remains <- spring natzu region <- natzu prairie
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Herreteman 2018-11-03 11:21
Ok, I see what you're referencing, I had a specific change to that recently so I'll make sure it's working
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Espeon 2018-11-03 11:50
the thing you missed in that check was probably having Ricky to jump the water
11:50
I was surprised that the game let you tbh
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 18:33
uh....I'm trying to update the metroid prime tracker, and the little green bar fills up but then nothing happens and it still says update available
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JRJathome 2018-11-03 18:39
This is usually caused by a version number mismatch between the pack manifest and the author's repository. Likely, @SauceRelic updated their repo but forgot to upgrade the version number in their pack manifest. The pack likely updated just fine, but the download manager thinks the version you have isn't the latest for that reason. (edited)
18:42
The other common reason is EmoTracker checks open folders before zip files. If you unzipped the pack into the packs folder for some reason, EmoTracker will see that unzipped folder instead of the zip file. (edited)
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 18:48
I did unzip it, yes. so do i have to move or delete the unzipped folder in order for it to update?
18:50
i feel like that would work
18:53
i fixed it
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 20:51
sorry if I'm overloading @SauceRelic but I was able to get to hall of the elders (chozo) without the square showing up. is there a visor requirement for that im not aware of? also, its possible to get to the antechamber (chozo) and both subsequent elevators with a standable terrain exploit (yes im sure i have them turned on in the tracker)
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SauceRelic 2018-11-03 20:53
Can i see your items and settings?
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 20:55
sure one sec
20:56
items
Image attachment
20:56
settings
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SauceRelic 2018-11-03 20:59
As far as I know the terrain exploit to get through the reflecting pool requires a ghetto jump, so that setting would have to be turned on
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 21:00
ghetto jump?
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SauceRelic 2018-11-03 21:00
I am missing the terrain exploit part in my logic which could make it say that it's incorrectly in logic, which is the exact opposite problem
21:01
Yeah, you stand on the toad on the left and do a ghetto jump off of him
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 21:03
so thats what ive been doing all this time? without even knowing what a ghetto jump is XD
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SauceRelic 2018-11-03 21:03
Yup
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 21:05
neat! although i probably wont turn the setting on without knowing what it is or where else to use it
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SauceRelic 2018-11-03 21:05
And you don't have boost, so with those settings you can't logically get the HotE item
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 21:15
right, because you're not supposed to be able to get into Furnace without boost, even though its possible without
21:15
?
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SauceRelic 2018-11-03 21:16
You've got space jump right? i can't tell
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 21:16
i do
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SauceRelic 2018-11-03 21:17
That should be showing up green then
21:17
I was wrong
21:18
My code looks fine though
21:18
Can i see your map? with f11
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 21:19
Image attachment
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SauceRelic 2018-11-03 21:21
You've got HotE checked off, that red one is Crossway which needs an L jump for the terrain abuse (edited)
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 21:21
yes, thats because i walked right in and got the items. i went there through furnace (through the top part of course)
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SauceRelic 2018-11-03 21:24
Ok just tried activating all items and its still red so my code is obviously not fine
21:24
I'll look into it
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 21:25
i think if you activate boost ball itll show up green though
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SauceRelic 2018-11-03 21:30
Figured it out, will push a fix in a few minutes (edited)
21:35
Should be going live now. I was missing an "item_count" for the late chozo logic, so it was never enabled.
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 21:37
sounds good. glad i could help!
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-03 21:57
might have found another thing I'm curently standing in research lab aether, and heres what the map looks like
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21:58
heres my current items
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SauceRelic 2018-11-04 16:30
Yeah I've ran into a few issues myself. Not even into phendrana and i've checked all my green locations with no progression. I'm going to do a complete review of everything, since I'm probably missing some updates
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SauceRelic 2018-11-04 17:11
Update on your specific problem @Sal the Dragon : found the cause, some logic i was referring to for the far phendrana items was named wrong. Will fix after my full sweep
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-04 17:12
👌
17:13
If I find anything else I'll let you know
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SauceRelic 2018-11-04 17:40
Fixed my problem as well so I'll just update now
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-05 19:03
@Herreteman it doesn't explicitly say on the list of available packages, but does the OoS tracker support chatHUD commands?
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Herreteman 2018-11-05 19:23
No
19:24
I don't really have plans to add support for them TBH, at least not in the near future
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EmoSaru 2018-11-05 21:41
FYI, all packs have support for chathud
21:41
however, depending on how the item codes are setup
21:41
it may or may not be very usable
21:42
the little chathud badge indicates that the pack author has put effort into making it usable
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JRJathome 2018-11-06 12:11
Yeah, it's pretty much good as is. There's only a few changes I think would make chathud more intuitive to use for the OoS pack.
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trucker 2018-11-07 22:58
@Gilgatex found two minor errors when running a seed today Ether tablet marked as checkable when cant reach location to use book on it i had book but no mirror or hookshot or hammer to get to the tablet Kraid missle location is checkable with just wave was able to pass thru the area without the powerbombs to get the item but had wave to be able to check it (edited)
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Gilgatex 2018-11-08 05:06
Thanks @trucker I will look into them both
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-10 00:18
Hey @Herreteman I'm currently running Seasons. I'm in Unicorn Cave, and the moving floor chest on the left side is marked as red but I just got it. I killed the moldorm and the other weird magnet shielded enemies via bombs and Gale seeds (technically mystery seeds since it's all I have)
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Herreteman 2018-11-10 04:02
If you're in Normal, bombs are rever expected as a weapon by logic
04:03
Guess I forgot to mark that as a sequence break, thanks for reporting
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-10 13:54
They're not? Well I learned something new today. Happy to report!
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SliceAndDice 2018-11-10 14:34
@Fouton (PugHUD) Sorry to bother you with a potentially stupid question, but I'm trying to see if there's any way to make the OOT PugHUD tracker larger as a whole, but going into the tracker_layout file and fiddling with the height number has no obvious effect and adjusting the width just adds empty space on the sides. Is there any way to do this, or is it just the size it is because of the sprites?
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JRJathome 2018-11-10 14:36
Add "scale": 2, to the item grid to double the size of the icons.
14:39
You'll also have to change the width of the tracker to make them fit.
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SliceAndDice 2018-11-10 14:40
Yep, figured out how to play with that. Should work great now, thanks Jath!
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Fouton (PugHUD) 2018-11-10 14:58
pattyOK
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SliceAndDice 2018-11-10 15:00
pattyOK
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Espy the Espeon 2018-11-11 18:41
where would i find the metroid prime randomizer?
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EmoSaru 2018-11-11 18:42
There is a list of game specific discord servers in #faq
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-14 22:06
hey @SauceRelic I'm currently in Magmoor workstation, having come from the elevator to west Tallon. I don't have L or R jumps enabled but its totally possible to get here from the elevator by damage boosting through the lava in the room where the long spider ball track is. I would suggest marking it as a sequence break with these items
Image attachment
22:07
and these settings
Image attachment
22:08
(meaning the magmoor workstation check should be marked as a sequence break)
22:09
Thardus and Quarantine Monitor are also fully attainable
22:10
wait no! i dont have spider ball and have just softlocked myself in the Thardus fight
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SauceRelic 2018-11-14 22:11
That magmoor one is straight from the logic, so i'll add that as a sequence break
22:12
Might want to tell bash about that one as well and see if he'll add it with certain etank requirements and such
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-14 22:13
okay so quarantine monitor was obtainable but thardus is not because im now softlocked having beaten him
22:13
i slipped off the grapple point XD
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SauceRelic 2018-11-14 22:13
Softlockable items like that will be more clear soon. Right now the color indicators are kind of limited, but one of the upcoming emotracker updates is adding something to fix that
22:14
I think it is possible to escape by standing on a certain point and grappling, but you should go ask about that in the game discord
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-14 22:14
I think purple for softlockables would be cool
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EmoSaru 2018-11-14 22:14
It's not gonna be a color, it's gonna be icons.
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SauceRelic 2018-11-14 22:14
Yup
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-14 22:14
sounds awesome!
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-14 22:22
update: i beat Thardus and easily jumped enough to reach the grapple point. is techincally a sequence break though. Usually i get spider ball a lot earlier
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Rocher 2018-11-19 11:28
Hello, I am actually working on a tracker for the Castlevania aria of sorrow randomizer. however i still have some problem when manipulating json files. Do you know where can i find some documentation about it ?
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JRJathome 2018-11-19 11:40
Emo's been working on some documentation, but it's not complete yet. Is there anything in particular we could help you with?
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Rocher 2018-11-19 11:45
Thanks for the answer :) i finished gathering all the image ressources i needed and i first want to make the broadcast layout. i try to do the same than in other packages, i. e. i defined all the items as toggle in a items.json file, and i try to make a broadcast layout using bradcast layout file. I filled the rows with the codes i have from my item file but nothing shows up. Am i doing it wrong when creating the rows, or are there some other stuff i m missing ?
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JRJathome 2018-11-19 11:48
I'd have to see the broadcast json. It could be anything from incorrect codes to missing a comma or bracket somewhere.
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Rocher 2018-11-19 11:49
if you don t mind, can i DM it to you ?
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JRJathome 2018-11-19 11:49
That's fine
11:52
Is the pack showing up at all in EmoTracker?
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Rocher 2018-11-19 11:52
yes
11:53
i have other files unmodified from another package to make it show (edited)
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JRJathome 2018-11-19 11:54
Ok. I asked since what you sent me didn't include a manifest file. 😃
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EmoSaru 2018-11-19 11:55
FYI, I can't guarantee what the behavior is if you have multiple packs with the same UID. Make sure you've given your pack a unique uid, have it in its own matching folders, etc.
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JRJathome 2018-11-19 12:06
tbh, I'm not sure why it's not working. The broadcast layout should still work even without a defined tracker layout, right?
12:08
Emo, here's the link if you wanna take a look. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/514165624184766486/514167061371551784/aria_of_sorrow.rar
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EmoSaru 2018-11-19 12:09
I am not actually sure what will happen with no tracker layout.
12:09
And being at work right now, I can't debug it.
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JRJathome 2018-11-19 12:10
Oh, alright.
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EmoSaru 2018-11-19 12:10
Also, can we please move this to #customization-support ?
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JRJathome 2018-11-19 12:10
Will do.
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EmoSaru 2018-11-19 12:10
thx
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Rocher 2018-11-19 12:11
thanks a lot for your answers i ll try on my own to make it work and might come back 😃
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-19 12:28
seeing as I've been playing this randomizer for a total of three days I suspect that this isn't a weird use case, but I found that in brinstar I was able to access an item drop that the logic said wasn't available yet
12:28
namely, the super missile drop after spore spawn didn't show up as a square until I told the logic I had super missiles, but I don't have them on my current run at all
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JRJathome 2018-11-19 12:29
And you said this is for the ALttSM pack?
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-19 12:29
yeah
12:29
I'm using the v10 tracker
12:30
reading a bit about the logic gates and nodes in the dev thread over there i was under the impression that the logic was being developed ongoing
12:30
and that this might just be an incomplete logic gate or something
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JRJathome 2018-11-19 12:31
Pinging @Gilgatex. They're the one who made the pack.
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-19 12:31
here's some screenshots for context
12:32
Image attachment
12:32
this is my current tracker. Note the lack of the green square on spore spawn supers with no super missiles (edited)
12:33
Image attachment
12:33
after I tell the game I have supers, this square shows up green
12:33
Image attachment
12:33
and here's a screen shot of me in the spawn without super missiles
12:37
...well I won't provide it, but obviously there's a green door on the way out, and I've just gone and softlocked myself
12:38
please disregard my idiocy
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JRJathome 2018-11-19 12:38
Ah yeah. That's probably why. I seem to recall hearing about some areas like that in the Metroid Prime rando too.
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-19 12:39
yeah, it makes sense now
12:39
I suspected there was a good reason why, it just wasn't clear to me without all the information
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JRJathome 2018-11-19 12:40
Gilgatex could possibly make the location a capture point. Just on the off chance you do exactly what you did, you could make a note if there's something important there. Or clear the location if there isn't. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-11-19 12:40
There's an outstanding feature request from a few pack devs for the ability to display a soft-lock indicator. This is one of the reasons why. 😃
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-19 12:41
I suspect that by the time you get past all the other knowledge burdens this type of speed runs has to offer, remembering what can conditionally softlock you is small in comparison
12:41
I just need to softlock myself a bunch so I learn them the hard way
12:41
but this one wasn't in the softlock video
12:41
that's in the #resources tab anyway (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-11-19 12:42
In general, the stance I've taken is that tracker presumes you know how to play the game.
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-19 12:42
indeed
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EmoSaru 2018-11-19 12:42
That said, there's nothing wrong with reminders, it's just all about prioritizing work.
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-19 12:42
no these trackers are really ambitious
12:42
none of this stuff existed a few years ago at least to my knowledge
12:43
finding out that someone had not only managed to randomize ALTTP but actually squeeze randomized SM into the same cartridge is actually nutty
12:43
what a future I live in
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EmoSaru 2018-11-19 12:44
There have certainly been item trackers for quite a while. Basic location trackers for a slightly shorter while. The real new thing with EmoTracker is that it's a framework for building trackers, so everything is implemented in a game-agnostic way, allowing other people to build the packs. It makes things harder and take more time, but in my opinion it's been worth it so far. 😃
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-19 12:45
that's what I mean yeah
12:45
I knew that a lot of these speed running games had a pretty cool mod and racing community
12:45
but this randomizer complete with logic tracker is just mind bogglingly cool
12:46
turning classic snes games into roguelikes is awesome
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-11-19 18:57
@Kage Benshin no Jutsu I believe the Randomizer's logic also requires at least one Super Pack in Samus' inventory to place anything from the progression pool into that location.
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-19 18:59
That’s consistent with what I experienced. Thanks!
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LordVysh 2018-11-24 16:18
Is there a keysanity inverted tracker?
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JRJathome 2018-11-24 16:19
Not released yet. Wouldn't surprise me if someone was working on one though.
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EmoSaru 2018-11-24 16:20
I have the stuff (somebody else actually contributed it as a mod to my pack), and I haven't had a chance to get it released yet. (edited)
16:20
I'm hoping to do it today, actually.
16:20
But I can't guarantee
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CodeGorilla 2018-11-24 19:23
Something I noticed while running through a casual playthrough of the ALttP/SM randomizer with the map tracker: why is Ganon's Tower not a location that is tracked? @Gilgatex , and @EmoSaru since I noticed the same thing in the ALttP map tracker. I'm pretty new to the community, so I'm willing to admit I may be missing something here.
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Hamsda 2018-11-24 19:25
for the non entrance rando or glitched modes, the thinking is mostly "you are in GT, you don't need to track new items anymore"
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CodeGorilla 2018-11-24 19:25
That's fair; I was only looking to track it because I was trying to do ka completionist run. 😃
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Natalie 2018-11-24 19:29
🤔
19:31
The only reason you would ever exit GT is to use an item you found in GT to open up an item that you actually need to progress in GT. I'm not exactly certain if the logic actually allows that in its current state.
19:32
For SMZ3, logic does consider defeating Mother Brain to be the prerequisite to entering Ganon's Tower, so you'll never find direct progression in Super Metroid in GT.
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Nochibato 2018-11-24 19:32
that's not exactly true if it's an all dungeons seed is it?
19:32
or does the tracker not account for that
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Natalie 2018-11-24 19:33
I'm not familiar with what All Dungeons does to the LttPR logics.
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Gimmickless 2018-11-24 19:33
About the only thing possible is big key on post + sprint shoes locked behind an item in GT. Powder, for instance?
19:33
Never seen it happen, though.
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Nochibato 2018-11-24 19:33
if swamp and ice palace are pendants, hookshot could be in GT because you could get the crystals without it
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Natalie 2018-11-24 19:34
SMZ3 doesn't use anything other than crystals and open state though
19:34
so in the relevant context here, Ganon's Tower never contains an item which obstructs you from defeating Mother Brain
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Nochibato 2018-11-24 19:34
I didn't notice he was running SMZ3
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Natalie 2018-11-24 19:35
I will say it's odd that GT doesn't have its contents defined (for various edge-case reasons)
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CodeGorilla 2018-11-24 19:35
Thanks for all the info, everyone. I'm still learning this stuff, and only following along pretty casually.
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Nochibato 2018-11-24 19:36
I've barely touched metroid and never touched super so I'm no authority there
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Natalie 2018-11-24 19:37
Now, I'm not going to say outright that you can't find, say, Wave Beam in Ganon's Tower, Pegasus Boots in Pink Brinstar's wave gate, and the Big Key on the torch
19:37
..mostly because I don't actually know if the logic does/does not support that.
19:37
That's definitely a question for the SMZ3 community.
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JRJathome 2018-11-25 20:32
@EmoSaru In the aLttP Inverted pack, I noticed that library and race game don't show as capturable without moon pearl even if Aga 1 is defeated. Tested with and without my overrides.
Image attachment
20:32
I think those two locations should be blue since you can at least see both items.
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EmoSaru 2018-11-25 21:56
I'll add it at some point
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Ninban 2018-11-26 03:27
@Gilgatex in the combo pack, Blind should not be beatable without an appropriate weapon. Sword, hammer, somaria or byrna. It currently shows as beatable without anything other than TT access
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Gilgatex 2018-11-26 08:07
@Ninban The tracker assumes bombs can beat blind, but I double checked the code and see that is not in logic. I'll make bombs a sequence break.
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Ninban 2018-11-26 08:07
Bombs cannot harm blind
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Gilgatex 2018-11-26 08:16
Thanks
08:17
I must have copied that from somewere else that was wrong
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Ninban 2018-11-26 12:32
@Gilgatex I think your latest update broke some logic Screenshots with every items https://puu.sh/C88NA/43a72f1912.png https://puu.sh/C88Ox/a40a469db2.jpg Almost all of SM is inaccessible, and in LTTP it seems anything south of village of outcast, up to hype cave, is also broken
Embedded image
Embedded image
12:37
Your logic.lua breaks at line 439 - the if condition is missing a )
12:40
oh seems like you corrected it while I was figuring it out, restarting EmoTracker gave me the update
12:40
thank you!
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Gilgatex 2018-11-26 12:42
Yeah I had hoped no one updated in the 2 hours it was broken lol
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das 2018-11-26 15:32
Is there a way to make the ALTTP Standard Map Tracker show inaccessable location so I can mark them off if I glitch somewhere?
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rand(0) 2018-11-26 15:34
its in the #faq press F11
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das 2018-11-26 15:35
Sorry thank you
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rand(0) 2018-11-26 15:36
also enable tracking->always allow chest manipulation
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JRJathome 2018-11-26 15:43
Just curious. What kind of glitches are you doing?
15:44
Jaycee's got a separate Overworld Glitch pack available. Don't think there's anything for major glitch logic yet though.
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das 2018-11-26 15:44
just simple stuff like going through dark rooms and fake flute/flippers
15:44
just started playing lttp so playing no glitches but know a couple
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JRJathome 2018-11-26 15:45
I see. Those should be showing up in Emo's pack as sequence breaks (the yellow squares) when you can do them.
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das 2018-11-26 15:47
yeah hobo showed up as yellow but stuff like paradox cave and mire shack didnt show up when I had hammer + bottle + mirror
15:47
I assume fake flute isnt in the logic
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JRJathome 2018-11-26 15:48
Yeah, I'm pretty sure fake flute isn't allowed in no glitch logic, which is why it isn't showing up.
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rand(0) 2018-11-26 15:48
that's used in glitched logic only
15:49
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RTJ0oVPioSaEr_S_Ya49z1xZfHz168IcOinfP-BGaZ8/edit definition of minor/major glitches in case you care
15:49
if you ever want to race lttpr i'd recommend not mixing the two categories
15:49
for casual play it obviously doesn't matter
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das 2018-11-26 15:50
Thanks I will check it out. I just started playing LttP for the first time this past week so just playing casually
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EmoSaru 2018-11-26 15:50
Yeah, fake flute (and all YBAs) is a major glitch. (edited)
15:50
"casually"
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Spotty 2018-11-26 17:25
In regards to v10.1 of the sm+alttp randomizer tracker, it doesn't seem to update available locations for new items when sm bomb/super bombs are obtained after obtaining Morph Ball.
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Natalie 2018-11-26 17:29
Can't say I can replicate that with the fresh update I just pulled.
17:29
There was a momentary issue with Gilgatex's SMZ3 package where most of the logic was accidentally busted. Make sure you don't have the broken version and try again.
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Spotty 2018-11-26 17:32
ah, seems I had to close and reopen EmoTracker for the update to register.
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DarkLordArbitur 2018-11-27 08:26
I found an issue with Hamsda's keysanity pack. Not sure if it extends to other packs, but zora's fountain and its' 2 dungeons arent on the map.
08:28
Or, at least, the interactive boxes that should appear for zora's fountain zone aren't appearing. I'm not sure if it has something to do with ruto's letter not being on the tracker, but I can't check off the skulltula or the chest in jabu jabus belly
08:28
oh, i figured it out. rutos letter is on the tracker. i just had to cycle through the bottle
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Natalie 2018-11-27 08:32
https://puu.sh/C8A4a.png
Embedded image
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DarkLordArbitur 2018-11-27 08:32
yeah i figured it out
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Natalie 2018-11-27 08:32
you're in the middle of a game, so you should probably hold off on updating just in case
08:33
but yeah there's an update for that to show Fountain as sequence break
08:33
in the event that you forget to mark off the letter
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DarkLordArbitur 2018-11-27 08:33
i just downloaded yesterday
08:33
did the update come out today?
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Natalie 2018-11-27 08:34
Just after midnight PST yesterday (on the starting end of November 26)
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DarkLordArbitur 2018-11-27 08:35
ok. i already have the update. i just had to cycle through the bottles to say one of them was rutos letter and then the bits popped up
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Natalie 2018-11-27 08:35
..no, that's old behavior.
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DarkLordArbitur 2018-11-27 08:35
ok
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Natalie 2018-11-27 08:35
..or should be?
08:35
Hang on.
08:35
I need to look for myself now.
08:36
Ah, I get it now.
08:36
The old behavior is still partially in effect in that you have to first indicate in your items that you have Ruto's Letter.
08:37
However, to nudge players using the tracker into remembering they have to actually turn in the letter, there's now a location that has to be marked as checked in order to put Fountain into logic.
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DarkLordArbitur 2018-11-27 08:37
yep
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trucker 2018-11-27 08:41
@Gilgatex i noticed this just before the weekly last night but these two locations are not checking for anything
Image attachment
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Gilgatex 2018-11-27 08:53
Ah thanks
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Gilgatex 2018-11-27 09:13
@trucker fixed
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-29 00:47
@SauceRelic I have standable terrain exploits enabled in the settings, space jump, wave beam, and 40 missiles but it says the tower of light is inaccessible when im currently standing in it
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Ninban 2018-11-29 04:14
@Gilgatex If I can sequence break Death Mountain by having gloves but no lamp, locations accessible only through the upper Norfair warp should also be sequence breakable. They currently show as inaccessible unless I make either DM or Norfair in logic
04:16
This could also apply to the Maridia warp, which can be sequence broken with boots if you don't have flippers
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SauceRelic 2018-11-29 04:56
@Sal the Dragon the path through Ruined Shrine to get to there would require an L jump or dash off of a branch with the terrain exploit, so i believe this is working as intended
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Gilgatex 2018-11-29 07:15
@Ninban good point. That's going to be a bigger deal to add, so it might take a bit before I get that updated.
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Ninban 2018-11-29 07:18
No problem! I might try it myself in the meantime, will keep you updated if I manage it
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trucker 2018-11-29 07:33
@Gilgatex { "name": "Missile (green Brinstar behind missile)", "access_rules": [ "[tournament],$canBombPassages,$canOpenRedDoors", "[tournament],morph,screw,$canOpenRedDoors", "[casual],speed,$canBombPassages,morph" ], "item_count": 1 }
07:34
forgot to hold shift but you cant get to this item with screw not enough space to jump to break second block
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rand(0) 2018-11-29 07:35
gilgatex's logic is correct here. screw attack is all you need.
👍 1
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trucker 2018-11-29 07:35
how do you break the second bomb block then?
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rand(0) 2018-11-29 07:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wteVt90KLyo
07:36
standup glitch and spinjump in place (edited)
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trucker 2018-11-29 07:37
ah im just really terrible at standup glitches so never thought of it
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-29 12:50
@SauceRelic I didn't have to L jump or dash or anything, and I don't have either of those things enabled. Just a normal space jump with standable terrain
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SauceRelic 2018-11-29 12:52
I'd recommend reproducing it while recording and showing it to @BashPrime then, as my logic matches up with his (edited)
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-29 13:00
I'll highlight my Twitch VOD later today
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BashPrime 2018-11-29 13:55
@SauceRelic @Sal the Dragon Hey what's up
13:59
public canAccessTowerOfLight(settings: any): boolean { return this.hasMissiles() && this.has(PrimeItem.SPACE_JUMP_BOOTS) && this.has(PrimeItem.WAVE_BEAM) && ( settings.standableTerrain // jump to the door || (this.has(PrimeItem.MORPH_BALL) && this.has(PrimeItem.BOOST_BALL) && this.has(PrimeItem.SPIDER_BALL)) // developer intended ); }
@Sal the Dragon
14:02
Just to access the item, it checks if you have missiles, space jump, wave beam, and then either if standable terrain is in logic, or morph + boost + spider
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-29 14:07
I had all of those things except Spider Ball and boost ball I think
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SauceRelic 2018-11-29 14:17
I must've missed an update then. My mistake. Will fix tonight.
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BashPrime 2018-11-29 14:45
Unless my "has 40 missiles" part of the logic is incorrect, but it should work fine
14:46
I really need to add unit tests to the randomizer
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SauceRelic 2018-11-29 19:45
Which branch is used in the beta release @BashPrime , because I see something different in 1.0.0
19:46
public canAccessTowerOfLight(settings: any): boolean { return this.hasMissiles() && this.has(PrimeItem.SPACE_JUMP_BOOTS) && this.has(PrimeItem.WAVE_BEAM) && ( ((settings.standableTerrain || settings.ghettoJumping) && (settings.dashing || settings.lJumping)) // jump or dash to the door from the branch or by ghetto jumping || (this.has(PrimeItem.MORPH_BALL) && (settings.ghettoJumping || this.has(PrimeItem.BOOST_BALL)) && this.has(PrimeItem.SPIDER_BALL)) // developer intended, can bypass boost ball with a ghetto jump to spider track ); }
 (edited)
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Mihalo 2018-11-29 20:16
Is the Wind Waker Map tracker still being updated? I found at least two problems with it. 1) Maggie's Letter is considered a Free Gift now, not a side quest and had one of our bows on it 2) Tingle Statues are now in the pool and the reward for all 5 is under Misc. - had our last bow upgrade. @Darkened5ky , @Spleebie
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BashPrime 2018-11-30 09:07
@SauceRelic 1.0.0 branch
09:07
I'm not merging to master until 1.0.0 is considered stable and released
09:07
Sorry for the mixup 😦
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SauceRelic 2018-11-30 09:08
Yeah, I have a separate variant for the beta as well, which should use that logic
09:08
I believe most are using the beta now anyways
09:10
In any case I believe the original issue is resolved, although it was anticlimactic
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BashPrime 2018-11-30 09:12
@SauceRelic oh shoot I had the wrong branch up when I was showing Lyme my code
09:12
oh wait it's still the right code?
09:12
what the heck happened to my tower of light check?
09:13
I thought I changed it to what yours looks like
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Usurper Grimm 2018-12-02 16:22
@Gilgatex im using your smz3 tracker on a normal seed and I have 130 missles, 55 super missles but it is telling me (assuming yellow is sequence break) that even with Ridley dead the item in the Energy Tank Ridley room is only accessible w/ sequence break or charge beam
16:23
Before charge beam selection
Image attachment
16:23
after charge beam selection
Image attachment
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Natalie 2018-12-02 16:23
..that's because that's how the logic is written
16:24
that is literally how the logic for SMZ3 is written
16:24
you'll never be expected to fight ridley without charge beam
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Usurper Grimm 2018-12-02 16:25
oh, I was unaware of that. Seems kind of silly. thanks
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Natalie 2018-12-02 16:25
reminder that ridley does not have ammo or energy resupply during the fight
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JRJathome 2018-12-02 16:39
Yeah, the logic has to be written in a way that prevents soft locking due to dumb or silly mistakes. The key logic in aLttP is that way as well.
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-03 09:30
any news on when a Metroid Prime 2: Echoes randomizer tracker will be made/in production currently?
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SauceRelic 2018-12-03 10:27
Thinking about it, but school would make it take a while
10:33
That and the combo of the logic being very complicated and the data visualizer being so archaic means I'd have to essentially draw every room connection on a map before i could get any sense of where to start
10:34
So i estimate it would take a couple of months even if i was working on it every day
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rand(0) 2018-12-03 10:41
could always ask the prime rando group for help on requirements, maybe a public google spreadsheet
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Senen 2018-12-04 08:38
Hey, some logic errors were find today by someone on ALTTPR Discord, thought it should be reported here
08:39
It's about the Inverted Map tracker
08:42
1) https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/307860211333595146/519550630927400976/unknown.png?width=1213&height=910 Floating Island (light east death mountain) is appears in yellow with glove+hookshot and green with lamp+glove+hookshot. There's no way to access light east death mountain with so few items. 2) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/307860211333595146/519551621567479819/unknown.png All light east death mountain appears yellow with hammer+glove+moonpearl and green with (lamp or flute)+hammer+glove+moonpearl. Again, there's no way to access light east death mountain with so few items, you would need at least Titan Mitts (to switch to light world once you're east side) or Hookshot (to reach east side once you're in light world) (edited)
Embedded image
Embedded image
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TidusZecht 2018-12-04 08:46
clips for the point in question (thanks senen) Senen's #2 refers to the first clip, and the #1 refers to the 2nd clip (edited)
08:46
https://clips.twitch.tv/GlamorousKnottyPhoneCoolStoryBob
TidusZecht Playing The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - Twitc...
Eastern Light DM Logic??? - Clipped by TidusZecht
Thumbnail
08:47
https://clips.twitch.tv/FaithfulSneakySamosaAsianGlow
TidusZecht Playing The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - Twitc...
Tracker Error? - Clipped by FusterCluckie
Thumbnail
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EmoSaru 2018-12-04 10:11
I will look into it.
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EmoSaru 2018-12-04 11:05
This should be fixed now.
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AccountingNightmare 2018-12-05 00:46
Currently playing through OOTR using Hamsda's Keysanity Map and Tracker, and it says King Dodongo is in logic. I have Bombchus in logic and have unlocked them, but have no Bomb Bag or Strength Upgrade. Is there some easy way to kill Dodongo with Bombchus or is it a mistake in the tracker?
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EmoSaru 2018-12-05 00:47
I would recommend asking this on the OOTR discord
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AccountingNightmare 2018-12-05 00:47
Alright! Thanks 😃
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AccountingNightmare 2018-12-05 00:56
Did some searching in the OOTR discord and they say you need tricks like Bomb Hovers to beat King Dodongo with Bombchus. And the logic compendium lists "Bomb Bag or Goron Bracelet" as a requirement for Dodongo's heart piece. It's listed in white in my tracker though so must be a mistake
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LostThePirate 2018-12-05 01:11
Defeating King Dodongo himself with only 'Chus (and no strength or bomb bag) should appear as a sequence break (default colored yellow).
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AccountingNightmare 2018-12-05 01:16
Ah it shows up as yellow if I turn off "Bombchus in Logic"
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LostThePirate 2018-12-05 01:27
Ground jumps are never required by logic. @Hamsda - bug found.
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Natalie 2018-12-05 01:37
"white"
01:38
you mean the text, I hope
01:38
because that's the only place white is used as an indicator
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AccountingNightmare 2018-12-05 01:39
Yeah the text for King Dodongo is showing up as white.
01:40
Would my tracker save file help to find the bug?
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Natalie 2018-12-05 01:48
Not really
01:49
If King Dodongo shows as in-logic with only bombchus, then there is an error that's easy to find in the code
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AccountingNightmare 2018-12-05 01:49
Alright! No problems
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Hamsda 2018-12-05 03:08
yeah theres a few things that are well tested and others are not
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Hamsda 2018-12-05 04:46
@AccountingNightmare thanks for reporting, will be fixed in the next update
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AccountingNightmare 2018-12-05 04:55
No probs! Happy to help 😃 Thanks for making the tracker! It's been super useful
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Hamsda 2018-12-06 10:16
if you want the old behavior @Nareth Erakian I can give you the steps
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Nareth Erakian 2018-12-06 10:17
Would be nice.
10:17
I like to be able to arrange my windows to fit my screen. xD
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Hamsda 2018-12-06 10:18
1) override var_itemsonlykeysanity/settings.json and change "allow_resize": false to true 2) override var_itemsonlykeysanity/layouts/tracker.json and replace it with
{ "tracker_default": { "type": "container", "background": "#212121", "dropshadow": true, "content": { "type": "layout", "key": "item_grid_tall" } }, "tracker_horizontal": { "type": "container", "background": "#212121", "dropshadow": true, "content": { "type": "layout", "key": "item_grid_wide" } } }
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Nareth Erakian 2018-12-06 10:20
Ah, perfect.
10:20
Thanks. 😄
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Hamsda 2018-12-06 10:20
thinking about this, would it be possible to add a setting that controls if the layout gets switched between vertical and horizontal, @EmoSaru ? so that I could keep the tracker_horizontal around in the layout file, but just tell people to override the setting if the want the changing layouts?
10:21
no problem my dude 😃
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EmoSaru 2018-12-06 10:22
It’s possible. I will consider adding it in a future version.
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Nareth Erakian 2018-12-06 10:23
I just noticed another thing. Did you remove the icon for clearing GF? Like when you saved the workers and have peaceful guards?
10:23
I guess, an alternative to that could be making the GF-Name highlightable, like the dungeon-names. >_>
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Hamsda 2018-12-06 10:26
yeah I made it a "hidden flag" because it caused a lot of confusion
10:27
if you look at the carpenter rescue location, it is still there
10:27
I forgot to update the readme though
10:27
I added the GF options instead, to reflect logic for GF more closely
10:28
and I couldn't come up with something nice to fill the blank spot zfgAnyway
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Nareth Erakian 2018-12-06 10:31
Put in a picture of a cucco~
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JRJathome 2018-12-06 10:34
Since people bug me about it, I recommend a blue rupee counter. kelpSmug
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Hamsda 2018-12-06 10:35
ugh
10:36
FeelsBluepeeMan
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JRJathome 2018-12-06 10:38
Why is that not an emote on FFZ or BTTV yet? 🤔
10:39
Sorry. Getting off topic.
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Hamsda 2018-12-06 10:41
ask raizuto to put it on ffz 😄
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-06 11:50
Bluepee counter lol I love it. I say do it
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LostThePirate 2018-12-07 00:33
Green Rupee tracker or Go Mode button as suggestions to fill the hole from Gerudo Bridge.
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Natalie 2018-12-07 00:47
Epona ownership
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Mihalo 2018-12-07 01:20
giant's knife
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nickography 2018-12-07 21:32
@Gilgatex noticed this during my race
Image attachment
21:32
should be norfair access, right?
21:37
re: line 537-567 of logic.lua (edited)
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Natalie 2018-12-07 21:41
but where is the issue
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nickography 2018-12-07 21:42
there's full lower norfair access through the portal
21:42
space screw for WRITG
21:43
sorry, cited the wrong norfair function in my first comment
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Natalie 2018-12-07 21:44
"norfair" =/= "lower norfair" and it does appear that items past screw attack are incorrectly checking for the presence of gravity suitlava dive passage regardless of mire portal access (edited)
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nickography 2018-12-07 21:45
yes to your edit. hjb also gets past
21:45
so it seems to be a portal issue
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nickography 2018-12-07 21:54
but ... why is gold torizo accessible through the portal, but not lower norfair? is WRITG checking for lava dive
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Gilgatex 2018-12-07 22:36
@nickography Do you have the most recent pack? because this was an issue I think I fixed a couple days ago
22:37
I see your little update thing is green
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Natalie 2018-12-07 22:37
I literally just checked it during this discussion
22:37
the issue exists
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Gilgatex 2018-12-07 22:37
k
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nickography 2018-12-07 22:37
you've been updating a lot haha. I'll have to get around to updating soon
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Natalie 2018-12-07 22:38
https://puu.sh/Cels1.png
Embedded image
22:39
toggling on either gravity or hjb causes the remainder of LN to be marked accessible
22:39
it's all checking for lava dive passage but not the portal
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Gilgatex 2018-12-07 22:40
just on hard looks like
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nickography 2018-12-07 22:41
sounds about right
22:41
I hid the logic toggle, so mine's always on hard
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Natalie 2018-12-07 22:44
confirmed for hard only
22:45
🤷
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Gilgatex 2018-12-07 22:46
getting it fixed now, quiet update should be in a few mins
22:46
if you're mid game you should be able to save, update, then load
22:50
ok it's up
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-07 23:24
yo @Herreteman im playing a seasons seed on normal difficulty right now, with only the dimitri flute and the rod of seasons. it says that a select few chests in D1 are sequence breaks when im told theyre obtainable in normal logic
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dilbert719 2018-12-11 00:32
Hey. I'm new to the product, so this might be a super simple fix/something I just don't know, but I'm using Gilgatex's SM/ALTTP tracker, and I don't know how to toggle MM/TR access based on whether I have the right medallions. In my current seed, Mire was Bombos, which I had, but there seemed to be no option to indicate that it was, and Mire stayed red. Is there something I'm missing, or has someone developed an update to the tracker that would let me indicate that I had the right medallion, so I could get access without forcing an override?
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EmoSaru 2018-12-11 00:39
Right click the medallions
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dilbert719 2018-12-11 00:41
Thanks! I spent about 15 minutes trying everything I could think of on the Mire and TR crystal icons, but never thought to check the medallions themselves.
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Ninban 2018-12-11 04:57
@Gilgatex the pyramid fairy chests are currently "sequence breakable" without sword or bow (respectively). But it actually doesn't matter in logic, as long as we can access the chests (so you should combine them too)
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Gilgatex 2018-12-11 08:29
@Ninban I'm following the randomizer logic. It matters, because if you don't have a sword, for example, progression can't be in the left chest even if you have both red crystals. It's a logical sequence break, and it marked as such.
08:29
Whether or not it should be this way is an issue for total
08:31
It's a slippery slope to start straying from the randomzier code
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Ninban 2018-12-11 08:34
Oh I thought it wasn't from the logic, because I know lttpr isn't like that
08:35
In any case it's dumb logic, I'll check it and bring to total later lol
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Gilgatex 2018-12-11 09:16
Yep:
$this->locations["Pyramid Fairy - Sword"]->setRequirements(function($locations, $items) { return $items->hasSword() && ...
and
$this->locations["Pyramid Fairy - Bow"]->setRequirements(function($locations, $items) { return $items->canShootArrows() && ...
(edited)
09:16
I did a double take when I saw it
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Ninban 2018-12-11 09:20
Def props to you for sticking to the logic! Seq breaks are valuable info
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fylion 2018-12-11 09:20
Hm.
09:24
alttpr has those lines in the code as a legacy artifact from when pyramid fairy worked like in vanilla. To get an item for throwing in the sword, you had to have the sword. To get an item for throwing in the bow, you had to have the bow. These checks are no longer used in practice because the locations don't exist (you only throw a bottle in and get a fillup). They've been superseded by "Pyramid Fairy - Left Chest" and "Pyramid Fairy - Right Chest". Disclaimer: I don't know smz3 so I may be talking out of my ass here. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing is going on in smz3.
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Gilgatex 2018-12-11 09:24
The code I posted is from the latest repo version
09:25
so yeah, probably needs to be changed
09:25
Doesn't look like Total is a member of this discord so I can't ping him to this conversation, I'll just post an issue on github
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Ninban 2018-12-11 09:26
Also
09:26
Image attachment
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Gilgatex 2018-12-11 09:26
hmm
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fylion 2018-12-11 09:31
It's not a question of if the requirements for those locations are correct.
09:31
It's a question of what the requirements for the pyramid fairy chests are.
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Gilgatex 2018-12-11 09:35
Turns out I was looking at customizer code for the fairy herself, not the chests. I'll fix the tracker.
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Ninban 2018-12-11 09:35
Thank you!
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-15 02:22
@SauceRelic so as i understand it, climbing the frigate to get to the east ruins elevator in tallon is allowable with standable terrain, gravity suit, space jump, morph ball, and ice beam. yet overgrown cavern shows red unless i have boost ball
Image attachment
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blasteg 2018-12-15 02:57
so each item on the tracker needs a code for display, right?
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blasteg 2018-12-15 04:00
if I give two items the same "code", and have an item require "code" would it want either or both?
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SauceRelic 2018-12-15 07:37
@Sal the Dragon can I see your tracker settings?
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Hamsda 2018-12-15 07:54
@blasteg yes, just make sure they also have unique codes so they can be addressed individually for layouts and whatnot
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blasteg 2018-12-15 08:21
is it normal for progressive_toggle to toggle on left mouse, and progress on right
08:22
what's the option to advance level on left
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JRJathome 2018-12-15 08:44
"swap_actions": true, should work. I can't remember if progressive_toggle supports that, but it can't hurt to try.
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Hamsda 2018-12-15 08:48
i think it does?
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-15 11:07
@SauceRelic
Image attachment
11:09
Also, what's there two tabs of settings for? Setting things under "sequence breaks" didn't seem to change any accessibility
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EmoSaru 2018-12-15 11:24
@blasteg Required codes are counted. The default required count is 1, but you can e.g. require 2 of something by doing code:2. All items which provide that code in their current state will contribute to the count.
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EmoSaru 2018-12-15 12:10
And yes, progressive toggles have that default behavior. The progressive aspect determines what codes they would provide if active, and the toggle state controls whether they are providing those codes at the time.
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SauceRelic 2018-12-15 12:38
Sequence break options are basically just saying "I can do this but didn't enable it for the randomizer"
12:38
Should be making some yellow boxes pop up
12:39
Don't have my computer so I can't see what it should be doing but I'll check when I get home tonight
12:41
My guess is that climb also needs l jumps enabled, but I don't know for sure
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-15 15:31
It's shown up green for me before with those same items and settings, so something is different now
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blasteg 2018-12-15 17:37
what does "color" in locations do?
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blasteg 2018-12-15 17:45
also how do you calcylate the position on the map, trial and error?
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EmoSaru 2018-12-15 17:55
Color controls the color of the “stripe” on the side of locations when pinned or opened. It’s inherited, and people use it for different things. My packs, for example, use regional colors plus red for dungeons to make the pins easier to scan quickly
17:55
Assuming your image is the right dpi, you should be able to use pixel coordinates within the image there.
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blasteg 2018-12-15 18:03
\is the square center at the coordinate? or is it one of the corners?
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EmoSaru 2018-12-15 18:04
Should he centered
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blasteg 2018-12-15 18:05
ok thanks
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SauceRelic 2018-12-15 19:16
@Sal the Dragon needs ghetto jumping
public canClimbFrigateCrashSite(settings: any) { return settings.standableTerrain && settings.ghettoJumping && this.hasMissiles() && this.has(PrimeItem.MORPH_BALL) && this.has(PrimeItem.ICE_BEAM) && this.has(PrimeItem.SPACE_JUMP_BOOTS); }
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-15 19:27
huh, weird. ive never enabled ghetto jumping and it showed up before. I guess you must have fixed that already. thanks for getting back to me!
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blasteg 2018-12-15 20:03
does each location need a section if it only has one?
20:09
Square is larger than my map....
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blasteg 2018-12-15 20:43
how large is the item location square?
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-15 21:23
okay, i think it happened again. heres my settings
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21:23
and heres where the map says i can get to overgrown cavern
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21:25
that one yellow square only shows up as yellow, if I have "require visors" not highlighted in "sequence breaks" (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-12-15 22:32
@blasteg - you can set the size of the location markers for a map using location_size on your map definition. You can also set the border thickness using location_border_thickness. That said, you should probably consider using a larger map image to ensure that it scales well, and check the DPI - the map image should be saved at 72dpi.
22:33
Also, I meant to mention earlier, but these questions are really more appropriate for #customization-support
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blasteg 2018-12-15 22:34
I was trying to make a pack thoug
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EmoSaru 2018-12-15 22:34
I understand the confusion, but this channel is really for people looking for support in using specific packs.
22:34
Pack development stuff is basically the same basic info as pack customization
22:34
Which is what #customization-support is for
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qwertymodo 2018-12-16 23:17
@Gilgatex just a heads up on the SMALttP pack, the missile tank at the top of green Brinstar under the early supers should require missiles or super missiles to be accessible
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Natalie 2018-12-16 23:32
additionally re: the same area: https://puu.sh/CiVNj.png
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23:32
$this->locations["Missile (green Brinstar below super missile)"]->setRequirements(function($location, $items) { return $items->canPassBombPassages() && $items->canOpenRedDoors(); }); public function canPassBombPassages() { return $this->canUsePowerBombs() || $this->canIbj(); }
23:33
logic for this location is identical for normal and hard; requires the ability to use morph ball + any bomb
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Gilgatex 2018-12-17 06:15
Thanks, I'll look into it
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qwertymodo 2018-12-19 11:37
@Gilgatex is it possible to change the default SM difficulty to normal? I've looked through a couple of the overrides but nothing has jumped out as an obvious answer
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-12-19 11:47
@qwertymodo In items.json, move difficulty from Hard to Normal (which is still internally referred to as casual).
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qwertymodo 2018-12-19 11:53
perfect, thank you
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-12-19 11:53
Yep!
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qwertymodo 2018-12-19 12:06
ok, two more questions. Is it possible to use a different image in the broadcast view than the tracker view for the same item, and is it possible to have images overlap in the broadcast view?
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JRJathome 2018-12-19 12:10
For your second question, you can use a canvas with multiple items. It's separate from an item grid though, so you'd have to do some manipulation to fit it in.
12:11
That's how Fouton has his SMaLttP tracker set up.
12:13
I don't think there's a way to have a different image in the broadcast view, but I could be wrong about that.
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qwertymodo 2018-12-19 12:15
hmm... ok. if it's not possible directly I can play around with a couple of ideas, like adding a new item type that I only add to the broadcast view, and then updating the value of that item in the lua, the same way the items update the maps
12:18
I'm playing around with the idea of recreating the layout from my old SM autotracker
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12:19
especially the G4 image
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JRJathome 2018-12-19 12:21
The G4 image can definitely be done. That's how Fouton's pack has it. You'd just have to set it up for both layouts.
12:22
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EmoSaru 2018-12-19 12:33
Using different images for the same item in the broadcast view vs the main tracker is not currently supported.
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Gilgatex 2018-12-19 16:00
@qwertymodo It was changed to default in the most recent update. If you have any user overrides that may be why you don't see it.
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Dudude Dude 2018-12-19 16:09
You can kind of hack in different images for broadcast view compared to main tracker, but only for simple toggles. That'd be using composite_toggle with the actual item set to both item_left and item_right, that way you can define a different image for the same item. As said this is very hacky, and doesn't work for anything beyond simple on/off toggles. I'd recommend just looking into a different way of doing it instead.
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Jademalo 2018-12-19 18:15
why are the song checks in Hamsda's OoT map tracker all blue now? How are you supposed to see what they give you exactly?
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JRJathome 2018-12-19 18:16
I believe all the song locations are possible hint locations once you have stone of agony.
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Jademalo 2018-12-19 18:17
ooohhhh, I see
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Natalie 2018-12-19 19:02
Can confirm. All song checks in OoTR can have hints associated with them. They're in the "good hints" category; you'll always know exactly what location is indicated by a "good hint". All possible "good hint" locations will appear as blue ("visible") in the tracker once you own the Stone of Agony.
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qwertymodo 2018-12-19 20:29
@Gilgatex Green Maridia Shinespark missile doesn't have a slot to mark the item you found when it's blue/checkable without shinespark
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Gilgatex 2018-12-19 21:57
@qwertymodo yes it does. I think you're using an old verison.
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qwertymodo 2018-12-19 22:07
indeed, there is an update available. I'll give that a try when I'm done with this seed
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-20 02:17
hey @SauceRelic here's my map, saying that overgrown cave is accessible. except i dont have ice beam
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rand(0) 2018-12-20 03:42
that's an issue in the randomizer source fyi, bash still hasn't fixed it i believe
03:43
scratch that, looks like bash switched from dev branch to 1.0.0 (requirement is still wrong though so i sent a bug report) (edited)
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SauceRelic 2018-12-20 10:34
Good catch, will fix on my end
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Natalie 2018-12-21 23:27
@Gilgatex Access to peek Gauntlet Missiles items requires Power Bombs, not [can break bomb blocks]
23:28
rather, it requires power bombs in addition to the minimum green brinstar access requirements
23:28
it should not be appearing with just screw attack
23:28
and also not with morph+bomb
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FayteFireix 2018-12-22 05:30
@Gilgatex I think we found a logic error for SMZ3: Normal logic says Super Missles above GT are viewable w/ screw attack, Hard logic doesn't show them at all. Had required hookshot locked there with Screw Attack as the item to get it
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Gilgatex 2018-12-22 06:09
Thanks, I will look into both
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CodeGorilla 2018-12-22 17:11
@EmoSaru I'm using the LttP Keysanity Map tracker, and I think I've found a bug. The tracker claims that I can get to Kholdstare in the Ice Palace in logic without the big key, but the only way to do that is with a bomb jump, which is out-of-logic.
17:11
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EmoSaru 2018-12-22 17:45
You are correct. I'll get it fixed up.
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Espeon 2018-12-22 19:20
for the oracle of ages/seasons packs, would it be possible to have the flute be a generic "flute" and have the animal be strictly controlled by the natzu/nuun toggle? it would eliminate having to toggle through both separately, and since you already know both once you know one, the current separation is redundant (edited)
19:20
if it's not possible, then can we make it so the flutes and animals toggle through in the same order?
19:23
currently the natzu toggle is ricky=>moosh=>dimitri but the flute toggle is moosh=>ricky=>dimitri
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Herreteman 2018-12-23 01:42
Generic flute doesn't work because of a few specific cases in logic that are impossible to put in without separately telling the tracker what region you got, same reason a selector is needed
01:44
And yeah, I know the order is inconsistent, I have no idea why I haven't fixed it yet lmao
01:44
I'll try to put it in next update, should be soon
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JRJathome 2018-12-23 23:24
added capture for relevant freestanding models @Hamsda The locations are blue, but at least for these two locations, there doesn't seem to be a way to mark what item is there if it's important.
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-24 00:05
Well their overworld sprites are still a letter in a bottle and a piece of heart respectively, so you can't really visually check what item you'd actually get there
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JRJathome 2018-12-24 00:06
Not true in the dev version, hence the change.
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-24 00:12
:O I didn't know about that update to the dev branch
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JRJathome 2018-12-24 00:16
Yep. It can be useful, like when a streamer I was watching last night spotted their silver gauntlets on the rock arch in Desert Colossus while jumping down from the Spirit Temple hand.
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Natalie 2018-12-24 00:41
Nice to hear they finally caught up to Wind Waker on that front 🤔
00:41
(obscured item models when)
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Hamsda 2018-12-24 00:56
frick, thought I went over them all to make sure I had a capture_location for each
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JRJathome 2018-12-24 00:57
Yeah, I didn't check them all. Just those two.
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Hamsda 2018-12-24 00:59
but yeah, I was certain I'd miss something, even with double and triple checking
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JRJathome 2018-12-24 01:00
Yeah. There's just so many freestanding items.
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Hamsda 2018-12-24 01:01
Showing with 1,025 additions and 821 deletions. considering its about a total of 20k locs, this was one of the biggest changes I made recently
01:02
it's not too many freestanding items actually, only somewhere between 5-10 that are actually visible/relevant where you can see them but not reach them at that moment (edited)
01:02
but I also overhauled a good bit of the MQ hintable locations
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-27 21:42
i dont know if this is even an issue or if im dumb, but heres my settings
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21:42
and heres my map
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21:43
I'm currently standing in magmoor caverns and about to get the storage cavern item when it says nothing is available
21:45
@SauceRelic
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-27 23:03
different rando now @Herreteman I can definitely not access D5 right now with what I have
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23:03
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Mihalo 2018-12-28 02:23
why not? if north horon is default autumn, restore default season and just go straight to the dungeon entrance?
02:23
oh no flippers
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SauceRelic 2018-12-28 14:41
@Sal the Dragon if you can use powerbombs to get through that lava lake tunnel then that's technically out of logic, but it shouldn't be
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-28 14:45
Yeah that's why I thought it was weird, cause I got early PBs and blew my way through with those
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SauceRelic 2018-12-28 14:57
Bug report put in their discord. Will include this with my update for beta versions 8 and 9
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-28 21:20
So @SauceRelic , if I want x-ray visor platform locked locations to show up as yellow squares, do I need to highlight that option under "sequence breaks" in the settings?
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SauceRelic 2018-12-28 21:49
Yep. If the logical option is enabled the sequence break option doesn't matter. If it's disabled, but it would be accessible and in logic if it was enabled, then the sequence break option makes it visible as yellow
21:51
It's intended to support races where the logical settings are different from what you know how to do
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-28 22:15
good to know. thanks!
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 08:14
Hey @JRJathome , is there any reason that the broadcast view for your OoT tracker has the drop shadow enabled by default? It makes it a pain to colour key properly since it requires removing it with an override. I would have thought having that off by default for broadcast view would be preferable to make it much easier to key
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Hamsda 2018-12-29 08:16
use NDI and don't worry about color keying 😄
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 08:16
Yeah, I turned them back on when Emo added NDI support.
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Hamsda 2018-12-29 08:16
it is a beautiful feature Pog
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Natalie 2018-12-29 09:06
color keying is officially a thing of the past
09:06
you just need to upgrade to a stream software that supports either a plugin for NDI or supports it out of the box
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 09:16
oh wow, neat!
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 09:21
Assuming you're using OBS Studio, this is the plugin you'll want to add. https://obsproject.com/forum/resources/obs-ndi-newtek-ndi%E2%84%A2-integration-into-obs-studio.528/
obs-ndi - NewTek NDI™ integration into OBS Studio
This plugin adds simple audio/video input and output over IP using NewTek's NDI™ technology. Three integrations are currently available: - NDI Source: add NDI Sources into OBS like any traditional source - NDI Output: transmit the main program...
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Natalie 2018-12-29 09:22
if you're using Streamlabs OBS, last I checked they don't have any plugin support
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 09:22
yeah I'm using vanilla, got that installed
09:22
not seeing anything though
09:23
as in, no idea how to get emo to show on the ndi source
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Natalie 2018-12-29 09:23
Open the broadcast view and it should auto-host an NDI instance
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 09:24
Oh, there we go
09:24
had to reload the properties
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Natalie 2018-12-29 09:24
since it's networked, all you gotta do is point it to localhost
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 09:24
yep, got it working now
09:24
ty!
09:25
wow, properly transparent bottles too!
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Natalie 2018-12-29 09:26
I want to say xsplit supports NDI out of the box and I have no idea at all about player.me
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 09:26
hmm, there's quite a lot of artifacting on the captured source
09:26
jpeg style
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Natalie 2018-12-29 09:27
by that I assume you mean dulled reds?
09:28
last I heard that was a known downside of NDI and there was supposed to be discussion on making that not happen on their end
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 09:30
not just dulled reds, it's straight up as if the image was saved as a low quality jpeg
09:30
any scaling really shows it up, especially on hard colours like songs in Hamsda's pack (edited)
09:30
my assumption is there's chroma subsampling there as well
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Natalie 2018-12-29 09:32
I suspect the quickest quick-fix patch is to display at 1:1 and handle scaling on the tracker side
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 09:55
I normally display at 1:1, but it still has a decent bit of artifacting
09:56
I wonder if it would be possible to use a live updating image rather than video, like have the current composited broadcast view dumped to a png
09:56
I use a similar setup for album artwork
09:56
that would be a hell of a lot simpler to set up too
09:57
considering the tracker is static it would probably be a viable option
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Natalie 2018-12-29 10:01
🤔 If it were possible to force stream software to reload an image source when the file changes...
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 10:01
obs does it
10:01
I use that setup with snip for album artwor
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Natalie 2018-12-29 10:01
🤔
10:01
That sounds dangerous and hackish.
10:02
I like it.
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 10:02
haha
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Natalie 2018-12-29 10:02
I wonder if other broadcast softwares do the same thing?
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 10:02
I can't really see a downside - surely it would have way less overhead than NDI, perfect PNG quality, and way easier to set up on OBS
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Natalie 2018-12-29 10:03
If it turns out to be a global thing that they all do no questions asked...
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 10:03
heck even if it's just OBS, it's probably worth adding as an option
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Natalie 2018-12-29 10:03
The only downside would be regular and repeated data writing to drive
10:04
..unless an image source could be provided over network, in which case it can be served directly from RAM
10:04
but does a networked image source auto-update?
10:04
too many variables
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 10:05
you're vastly overcomplicating it though
10:05
just a simple dump to a png every time an icon is clicked and changed
10:06
I'll post it in suggestions
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ChloeIvy 2018-12-29 10:45
one quick question in regards to the emotracker map for OoT rando by hamsda, I noticed that when you right click the songs, it shows a check mark, what does it mean by that?
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Natalie 2018-12-29 10:46
That's shorthand for "I checked this song location"
10:46
since it has no logical function
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ChloeIvy 2018-12-29 10:49
ah
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 10:51
Yeah, I believe that's left over from when he used my song icons. It admittedly doesn't make as much sense to have that in a map pack as it does in my items-only pack. 🤔
10:53
Actually, I guess it's still there since his pack has items-only variants now.
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EmoSaru 2018-12-29 11:03
Live image export does not support the entirety of the broadcast view feature set.
11:03
It’s also got a pretty high latency in OBS
11:04
At the end of the day, the beat thing to do is scale your broadcast view to 2x in the layout and do a 2x scale
11:05
Personally, I just run it at the default scale and deal with the artifacting. In my experience, the end result on stream post encoding and twitch is effectively identical, so nothing is really lost for the viewers anyway, especially at common streaming resolutions.
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Natalie 2018-12-29 11:10
Incidentally, did anything ever come about on discussing the artifacting with the NDI people?
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EmoSaru 2018-12-29 11:10
No. They are continuing to work on performance (good), and there are quality improvements coming in the future, but I didn’t get any specifics from them.
11:11
And with that, I am done talking about image export for today, because I am sick and about to drive for 6 hours.
11:12
My personal opinion is that people are focusing on a quality improvement that is unlikely to survive encoding for streaming services anyway.
11:12
And I have done testing that backs that up.
11:13
And lastly, this really really really should not be in #pack-support.
11:14
Also, one other thing - disk IO is actually significantly more disruptive to the tracker app itself than what NDI does, even when multithreaded.
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Jademalo 2018-12-29 11:53
Didn't mean to talk about it in here, that's why I posted it properly in suggestions.
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Gravy_The_Gator 2018-12-29 12:35
Hi, I'm trying to install a public package tracker by Hamsda but the install thing gets most of the way done then stops, when I go to check installed packages it says I have none.
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Gravy_The_Gator 2018-12-29 12:54
https://gyazo.com/87983e05e4f756b6e46d3a18c4e8d7d3 this happens when I tried to install Hamsda's tracker pack
Gyazo
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Gravy_The_Gator 2018-12-29 13:05
I figured it out, I had to manually add the package to my packs folder
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 13:28
Sounds you might have something that's not letting EmoTracker save to your Documents folder. See the latest post in #faq.
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Hamsda 2018-12-29 14:59
the checkmarks are also for finding your way through song logic quicker, even on the map tracker ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:16
hello
19:17
i using the tracker but the only open there is is the glitched run
19:21
i dont know how to do glitched runs
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 19:22
The pack you want is at the very top of the download manager.
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:23
i got that
19:23
but im using the map and its saying i can get the guy under the bridge but i dont have flippers
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 19:24
Is the square green or yellow?
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:24
green
19:24
and i havent started yet
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 19:25
Hmm. And you're sure you're using Emo's pack instead of Jaysee's?
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:25
yes
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Natalie 2018-12-29 19:26
https://puu.sh/Cp2vC.png Freshly updated and cannot replicate.
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19:26
Are you sure you're not mildly colorblind?
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-29 19:26
Screenshots would help
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 19:26
Nat, that's rude.
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Natalie 2018-12-29 19:26
Asking a legitimate question is rude?
19:27
There are, in fact, people who have trouble differentiating between the green and yellow due to colorblindness.
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:28
this is how mine comes up
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Natalie 2018-12-29 19:28
Yeah, uh, you selected the OWG map package.
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-29 19:28
Your mode says overworld glitches
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:28
how do i do no glitches
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 19:29
You can change your active pack with the gear menu.
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Natalie 2018-12-29 19:30
https://puu.sh/Cp2BK.png
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:30
thank you
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Natalie 2018-12-29 19:30
(yes, I need to clean up some of my old pre-variants pack downloads)
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:30
thanks
19:32
but its not set up to be open
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Natalie 2018-12-29 19:32
>not set up to be open
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:33
wait
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Natalie 2018-12-29 19:33
Looks like the default state of the Standard Map Tracker variant coincides with all locations accessible immediately upon completing the Zelda rescue sequence i.e. "Open" state (edited)
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:33
sorry im dumb
19:34
its because i could open none of the portals.....
19:34
im sorry for wasting time
19:34
im new to using trackers
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Natalie 2018-12-29 19:34
It's only going to show you locations that you can actually do something at.
19:35
If you really want to see every location (useful if you need to undo a mis-marked check) press F11
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:35
ok thanks
19:36
oh f11 hides the ones i cant do so i dont miss click
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Natalie 2018-12-29 19:36
F11 toggles the visibility of locations that are either inaccessible or already cleared
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:36
thanks
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Natalie 2018-12-29 19:37
you won't be able to actually modify the state of a red map marker or item check without specifically turning on the ability to do so
19:37
under most circumstances, you won't ever need to
19:38
but you can turn that on anyway, should you find a reason to do so, by going to the gear -> Tracking -> Always Allow Chest Manipulation
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:38
ok thanks
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Cubix 2019-01-01 12:31
In Ocarina of Time randomizer, it says I can kill skulltulas when I don't have access to a sword/deku stick/any particular weapon.
12:31
Yet.
12:32
It's hamsda's pack.
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Natalie 2019-01-01 13:02
What did you mark off?
13:03
And in all fairness, you can farm deku sticks by farming rupees, so you can always be considered as having 10 deku sticks
13:04
so there's no reason a ground level skulltula should ever be marked as unkillable... because you always have access to deku sticks, excepting the case where they don't appear in the shop
13:05
and even then, there MIGHT be a pot that drops one? don't quote me on that. regardless, excluding shopsanity you always have access to deku sticks
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Cubix 2019-01-01 14:51
it is shopsanity
14:52
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Pawcio932 2019-01-01 14:52
You can kill some skulltulas with pots
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Cubix 2019-01-01 14:52
and bushes?
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Pawcio932 2019-01-01 14:53
no
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Natalie 2019-01-01 14:53
Why do you have ten skulltula tokens marked off, but no access to a weapon or adulthood?
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Cubix 2019-01-01 14:53
skullsanity
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Natalie 2019-01-01 14:53
point
14:53
Skulltulas can definitely be killed with pots
14:53
and there are also a handful of pots which are guaranteed deku stick drops
14:54
I do not know where these pots are
14:54
other than one in goron city and one in zora domain
14:54
so if you can reach one of those pots, then skulltula murder should definitely be in logic even in shopsanity
14:55
you should ask the OoTR discord about finding sticks in pots
14:55
they'll know more about where to do that
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Cubix 2019-01-01 14:55
ok i will
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Natalie 2019-01-01 14:56
failing that, you'll just have to try to kill skulltulas with rocks or pots where you can
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Pawcio932 2019-01-01 14:56
you can't kill skulltulas with rocks
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Natalie 2019-01-01 14:56
🤔
14:56
for some reason that doesn't sound right at all
14:56
why program only pots to do damage
14:57
anyway, if you find any skulltula which you can't kill because you don't have access to even a potted deku stick, then bring it up for consideration
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Cubix 2019-01-01 15:06
I don't have access to either potted deku stick location
15:06
and it's saying a lot of skulltulas are killable
15:12
Nevermind, there's pots
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Hamsda 2019-01-01 16:49
yeah I went over many of them recently some you'd never do with pots in reality (like LLR or child nicht kakariko), but its in logic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Cubix 2019-01-01 18:10
Is there a tracker that tracks hints for OoT?
18:10
Gossip stones, I mean/
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Hamsda 2019-01-01 18:13
I think mine has the most "non standard" things, but no those are not on there yet
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Jarduk 2019-01-02 16:06
I can't load saves that i did with @Hamsda 's pack. I already tried save and load with other packs and that works.
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Hamsda 2019-01-02 16:07
if you update between a save and load, you can't
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Jarduk 2019-01-02 16:08
But i didn't... i just tried to save and then load it and the "normal" error message appears
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Cubix 2019-01-02 18:34
Does Hamsda's map tracker not have all the locations? Because I swear the open grotto near lake hylia is not on there.
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Natalie 2019-01-02 18:38
🤔
18:39
https://puu.sh/CqQAs.png
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18:39
This one?
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Hamsda 2019-01-02 18:52
rooThink
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-02 19:15
Yes lol Natalie that's the one
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EmoSaru 2019-01-02 19:33
@Jarduk I'm able to reproduce that save/load issue with Hamsda's pack. I will take a look at it to see if it's my bug or a pack issue.
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Hamsda 2019-01-02 19:36
monkaS
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EmoSaru 2019-01-02 19:53
FYI, we've tracked down the issue. It is a pack issue, but the tracker didn't exactly do the pack developer any favors in terms of highlighting what occurred. I'll be looking into providing better log output for developers about these types of issues post-GDQ.
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Hamsda 2019-01-02 19:53
pushed a fix
19:54
@Jarduk once you update it should be fine again, I doubt your previous save will work though
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Jarduk 2019-01-03 01:28
@EmoSaru @Hamsda Thank you both ^^ And no worries, i was only testing something so i don't really needed the save 😛
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Hamsda 2019-01-03 07:01
good thing you tested at that moment when I fucked up then 😄
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Marjevic 2019-01-04 02:15
I'm having a different issue with save/load using Hamsda's map tracker; look at the Bracelet/Gauntlet and check what I can get in Spirit. Something isn't right here. I didn't have this problem when I played yesterday, but it popped up today when I loaded the save file. Checking/unchecking any item fixes it.
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02:15
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Hamsda 2019-01-04 02:16
yeah thats probably still some cyclic logic I have in there somewhere zfgAnyway
02:16
spirit temple logic is a mess
02:17
do you have the save file for me?
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Marjevic 2019-01-04 02:17
Seed_3.json
113.58 KB
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EmoSaru 2019-01-04 02:19
This type of issue is generally caused by a bad (improperly ordered) location dependency in the logic for the location you're seeing issues in. It means that accessibility may not be evaluated correctly in a single pass, as loading a save does. This is likely a pack issue, and can be fixed as such, but if it's still an issue when I'm back from GDQ I can help to take a look into it.
02:19
NVM, @Hamsda too fast and Discord didn't auto-scroll, lol
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Hamsda 2019-01-04 02:20
rooSmug
02:20
yeah spirit logic is a giant dumb mess with adult and child
02:20
probably something left in there thats not quite right
02:20
will take a look later, thanks marjevic
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EmoSaru 2019-01-04 02:20
I'm adding badly ordered location references to my list of things to add dev console logging for when I'm back from GDQ
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Marjevic 2019-01-04 02:21
No problem, thanks for your awesome work. pieShades
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TheMightyTh90 2019-01-04 06:46
Hi 😃 so I'm looking for some help with my tracker. I recently updated my Hamsda pack for ZOOTR and when it updated it took away from settings for Medallions, Forest, Temple ect. Here's a pic.
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Hamsda 2019-01-04 08:47
that is not how it looks at all on my end you sure you don't have an override?
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Natalie 2019-01-04 10:23
the existence of the gerudo bridge repair in the item grid suggests you have conflicting overrides
10:23
definitely clean that out
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TheMightyTh90 2019-01-04 11:10
thank you! totally worked 😃
11:11
it was the override I was using to split up the medallions and stones so they were all individual
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Hamsda 2019-01-04 13:42
@Marjevic should be fixed with the new update!
👍 1
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Kelik 2019-01-04 21:32
@EmoSaru how does it require the mirror? i trip the dam, go use the portal to the north, then head to swamp palace?
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EmoSaru 2019-01-04 21:33
Have you tried that?
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Kelik 2019-01-04 21:35
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21:35
quickly done mid-stream, im in SP right now
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EmoSaru 2019-01-04 21:35
You are playing a festive seed.
21:35
Which changes the rules.
21:35
You are not using a pack specific to festive.
21:35
Because I didn't build one.
21:35
Because it's a time-limited format.
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Kelik 2019-01-04 21:36
ok
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EmoSaru 2019-01-04 21:36
With all due respect, before assuming the tracker has a bug, please be aware of the logical requirements of the base version of the randomizer.
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Kelik 2019-01-04 21:37
so since you obviously know what you're doing (no sarcasm, i idolize you) what happens when i normally try to access SP without mirror?
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EmoSaru 2019-01-04 21:38
That is a question far better suited to the Z3 randomizer discord. That said, when you leave the screen after draining the water with the dam, the water will reset.
21:38
That's why mirror is required - it's the only way to drain the water without it resetting.
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Kelik 2019-01-04 21:39
ah, the hardcoded the req by making it refill if you don't have the mirror. ok. thank you for your patience with this noob streamer
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ChelseyxLynn 2019-01-04 21:39
That's vanilla behavior
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EmoSaru 2019-01-04 21:39
It's not a rando thing - that's the vanilla game behavior
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Kelik 2019-01-04 21:40
is it? huh. TIL
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-04 21:43
helpful tip: play the vanilla game and have knowledge of basic game mechanics before attempting a randomizer and thinking logical things are bugs
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Kelik 2019-01-04 21:43
not my first rodeo, just didnt realize the reset was a thing
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Natalie 2019-01-04 21:44
That is a logical contradiction.
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Kelik 2019-01-04 21:45
honestly i used to beat the shit out of his game when i was like 7. but ive always done the SP in the "expected" way an never had to deal with the reset-on -screen-change
21:46
but i fully accept i was wrong in thinking it was a tracker issue and apologize for wasting emo's time
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EmoSaru 2019-01-04 21:46
It's quite alright, and sorry for being in and out - I'm packing for GDQ (edited)
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Kelik 2019-01-04 21:49
oh grats! good luck with GDQ. what event are you doing? or is there an announcement somewhere i can read?
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EmoSaru 2019-01-04 21:50
I'm just attending, and hanging out with friends
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Kelik 2019-01-04 21:51
ohh ok. i live in canada so i never get to hang with th cool crod, i'l shut up now since this is the wrong channel for for this chat lol
21:51
the cool crowd*
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LapplandG11 2019-01-04 22:11
@Sal the Dragon I finished my first Randomizer without ever having finished Vanilla
22:11
i just knew some mechanics
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halgorithm 2019-01-05 00:31
is it possible to share a url that shows emotracker information to viewers? like a map with information on each location?
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-05 00:35
not really a question for #pack-support , but I don't think so. Use a window capture on your streaming software and set it to your EmoTracker broadcast view
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halgorithm 2019-01-05 00:36
yeah that's what I do for the inventory
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JRJathome 2019-01-05 00:37
What sort of information are you trying to share?
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halgorithm 2019-01-05 00:40
a picture of the map and the important spots on it that have been visited
00:40
kind of hard to fit an image with all that information on stream
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-05 00:41
use another window capture of the main window and crop it until your map fits
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halgorithm 2019-01-05 00:41
but maybe having a timer in obs that switches a spot on the stream between inventory and a map image would be alright
00:42
unless there's some way to script that view switching on the broadcast view via an api (edited)
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Areku 2019-01-05 05:21
hmm still got aswell that missing Settings beneath the items
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Hamsda 2019-01-05 08:46
some old override you need to get rid of
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EmoSaru 2019-01-05 08:53
@halgorithm 1) No, there is no network sync or anything like it yet 2) I recommend using the broadcast view for capture, rather than the main window 3) You can add the map to the broadcast view as well with an override. 4) There is no timed/auto/etc. switching support 5) #customization-support (edited)
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Hamsda 2019-01-06 09:56
I hope I don't annoy anyone with the more frequent updates. Usually I've been sitting on a few changes until "enough" accumulated, but I think getting the quick fixes out is probably better rooThink
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Ninban 2019-01-06 10:07
I don't play much zooter these days but I'm not annoyed at all
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Hamsda 2019-01-06 10:13
Hmm yeah, probably not a hassle, since Emo didn't design the tracker to be obnoxious about updates 😃
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Ninban 2019-01-06 10:15
I do have the unending urge to get rid of the green update mark by updating packs even when I don't intend to use them, but it's all good lol
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Hamsda 2019-01-06 10:15
same xD
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 10:57
I only just started playing OOTR, so thanks for the pack, @Hamsda
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Hamsda 2019-01-06 10:58
no problem!
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 10:59
Speaking of which, I asked this over in #general-support but I don't know if this is an EmoTracker thing or a pack thing -- is there any way to get all the available items to show up (as if pinned) automatically, rather than having to manually pin each item as it becomes visible on the map? And while I'm asking stupid newbie questions, how do I get the map to show me items I've already collected?
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Hamsda 2019-01-06 11:02
f11 for all locations to show up on map
11:03
and the first question is a no, maybe its a feature emo would consider, but I don't think it should go into the pins, but rather a different form of list that can be included in layouts
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Natalie 2019-01-06 12:09
You should be more interested in pinning only locations you're headed toward, so you can easily mark them off rather than having to drag into the short list on the map and then click off the ones you took.
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Hamsda 2019-01-06 12:13
yeah I basically use pins to plan my route
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 13:19
Yeah, I'm not speedrunning OOTR, I just want a tool that gives me some idea of what I should be doing next rather than stumbling around blindly based on fifteen-year-old memories of the game
13:20
I was using zootr-tracker, which is nice and compact and runs entirely in the browser, but it also doesn't support the MQ dungeon layouts so it stopped being useful basically as soon as I got the hookshot and master sword.
13:20
(as a result I have spent this entire day hacking on zootr-tracker and on running emotracker in wine rather than actually playing the game, pretty much)
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Natalie 2019-01-06 13:47
Running the rando a few times will help with all of that. The ideal peak of learning the rando will be the ability to run full insanity settings with little more than a key tracker. You'll get there if you play it enough. Practice is the best way to learn.
13:48
(If OoTR has a vanilla seed, you could use that to re-learn the vanilla order of things without all the words slowing you down.)
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 13:49
(I don't think it does)
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JRJathome 2019-01-06 13:49
I don't think it does either, but there is this at least. https://twitter.com/Fig02_/status/1079790140409737217
Author icon
Fig (@Fig02_)
Better OoT is now released! This is a rom hack that applies various quality of life changes to the game for speedrun races and practice. Enjoy. Windows 10 download: https://t.co/UcbrFtK3a3 Releases page: https://t.co/6t2qQ3IodG Readme: https://t.co/SBhvzb4qCg
Likes
208
Footer icon Twitter
13:49
We're going off topic though.
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 13:51
Back on topic -- how do I operate the stones/medallions things in @Hamsda 's pack? Left clicking cycles between light and dark. Right-clicking cycles between [forest] [light] [fire|water] [spirit|shadow] [all the stones at once]. How do I tell it that, e.g., the shadow medallion is in the deku tree and I've collected it?
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Natalie 2019-01-06 13:52
The paired/multi icons are functionally equivalent
13:52
that is to say, Shadow by itself is garbage
13:52
you need Shadow and Spirit to do anything interesting
13:53
Claim the medal by right-clicking it to make it bright
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JRJathome 2019-01-06 13:53
Yeah, we combined the medallions and stones to reduce the number of clicks needed to cycle to the correct one.
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Natalie 2019-01-06 13:54
Fire and Water, and the three spiritual stones, are also garbage without the full collection of their grouping. (Forest is required alongside Fire and Water, but activates its own check by itself, so it's separate.)
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 13:54
Aah, I see. Another feature designed by and for speedrunners 😛
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Natalie 2019-01-06 13:55
You'll get used to it.
13:55
It's very important to know which MacGuffins are useless without their buddies.
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JRJathome 2019-01-06 13:56
The first layout I made for my items-only pack had all of them separate. Come to think of it, I've never gone back and fixed that. 🤔
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 13:57
Aaaand thirty seconds after I start up OOTR my daughter careens into the room and says she wants to play her save file instead
😂 1
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Natalie 2019-01-06 13:57
See also: red pendant and blue pendant in LttP, which are also useless by themselves; green gives an item at Sahasralha and the full set lets you pull the pedestal item.
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Hamsda 2019-01-06 13:57
i mean there are others that have them separate and I just disagree with that design choice
13:57
if you want them separate, that's what overrides are for
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Natalie 2019-01-06 13:57
Also, get a headset. >.>
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 14:03
Not planning on streaming it either 😛
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 14:29
Huh. Dampé's second race is showing up as accessible even though I don't have the longshot.
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JRJathome 2019-01-06 14:31
Don't need the longshot for that. It's useful as a small time save, but you can finish the race in less than a minute without it.
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 14:39
Oh. TIL.
14:43
It also seems to be curiously optimistic about where I can get to in the Fire Temple on this save -- without the Hammer there's only one accessible chest, right, the one in the boss room? Everywhere else either needs a key or the hammer.
14:44
And that chest didn't contain a key, so unless I'm missing something I can't get anything there until I come back with the hammer.
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JRJathome 2019-01-06 14:46
There's a good number of chests you can reach in Fire Temple without the hammer. Remember that the hammer is at the top floor of Fire Temple in vanilla, near the end of the dungeon.
14:47
...Oh I see the confusion.
14:47
So yeah, the logic wants you to get the boss key chest to continue on.
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 14:47
@JRJathome right, but usually you enter the temple, can't go lower left (dead end), lower right (needs hammer), or upper right (needs key), so you go upper left, get the key, then go upper right and that takes you into the temple proper where you eventually find the hammer.
14:47
If that first chest doesn't have a key in it, AFAICT all you can do is leave until you can come back with the hammer and skip straight to the boss key chest accessible via hammer from the entrance hall.
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JRJathome 2019-01-06 14:48
The tracker doesn't know where the keys are in your seed though, so it can display some incorrect information. There's no helping that.
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 14:49
Aah, it doesn't do any sort of key tracking? I assumed it would know where the locked doors are (those aren't randomized, right?) and then I could tell it "I have a key" or "I don't have a key".
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JRJathome 2019-01-06 14:49
The keysanity pack is better for tracking that, I believe.
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Natalie 2019-01-06 15:00
Definitely use the keysanity variant; it will tell you how deep you can get in any given direction with your keys
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Hamsda 2019-01-06 15:09
(sidenote: for nonlinear dungeons that might not be always true, as I can't know on which doors you spend your keys)
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 15:21
Aah, I assumed that if I wasn't playing with keysanity enabled the keysanity pack would be a bad idea.
15:21
Is it possible to rearrange the UI (so that, for example, Pinned Locations shows up next to the map rather than under it) and/or to scroll the Pinned Locations list?
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JRJathome 2019-01-06 15:22
If you're playing with the keysanity pack, it's important to know what items let you finish dungeons because dungeons won't show as completable until you mark the keys.
15:24
So the Pinned Locations section is unique since it just uses space that would be empty otherwise. I've helped people move it to the side before, but it has the side affect of shrinking the map whenever you pin a large section such as a dungeon.
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 15:24
Aah.
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Hamsda 2019-01-06 15:26
yeah the arrangement of map/items/pinned really depends heavily on how you size the overall window (based on your screen space)
15:27
so I went with what works for me and hopefully many others, but it obviously won't work for everyone
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 15:28
The issue I'm trying to solve is that if I, say, long click on one of the temples, the list of items is so long it goes off the bottom of the screen, especially since collected items aren't hidden, they just change to having an open-chest icon (is there a way to change that, or make the chest smaller?) If I pin the temple, there are so many items that they wrap to a second line and, again, go off the bottom of the screen. If I shrink the window horizontally, that forces the map to shrink vertically (since it wants to preserve aspect ratio) and frees up vertical space for pinned items faster than it loses horizontal space, but by the time there's enough room for the entire temple the map is too small to read, and of course this breaks if I want to pin more than one temple.
15:31
I can think of a bunch of mitigations (making the chest smaller and/or putting it next to the words rather than under them, completely hiding collected items (or at least hiding the chest) rather than just changing the icon, making the popup a grid rather than a list, making the map-and-pinned-items half of the window scrollable), but I have no idea if any of those are even possible in the EmoTracker UI.
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 15:41
@Hamsda right-clicking a song toggles a check mark next to it. There's no mention of this in the documentation. What's it for?
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Hamsda 2019-01-06 15:41
if you play without song shuffle, just an easier way to keep track of song locations
15:42
aka if you visit zelda, checkmark zelda and click whatever song impa teaches you
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 15:46
Aah
15:46
Makes sense.
15:47
(I play with song shuffle, because I enjoy the experience of opening the chests in Mido's house and getting the Bolero of Fire and three heart pieces)
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 16:16
Aha! I figured out how to move the pins into a tab, so now the tabs are [child][adult][pins].
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Natalie 2019-01-06 16:19
A... valid solution, but it sounds like you're playing on an incredibly small screen resolution
16:19
if pinning any given dungeon results in a hella list and the long-click list falls off screen entirely
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 16:20
It's 2880x1620, but the screen itself is relatively small (15")
16:21
There may also be a bad interaction between Emotracker, Wine, and Wayland's high-DPI scaling
16:22
Here's what it looks like:
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Natalie 2019-01-06 16:24
At a window size of 1280x960 on Win10
16:24
https://puu.sh/CsKCL.png
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16:24
in short: something's fucky
16:25
particularly in that the screenshot you just handed over is 1440x810
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 16:26
Oh, right, I have 2x scaling enabled, so in practice it looks like a 1440x810 screen to software
16:27
That said, the proportions all look more or less the same in the two screenshots, like my ratio of inventory icon size : mouseover menu icon size : map size are basically the same
16:28
But since yours is 4:3, you have more vertical space to fit the popup into
16:28
And if this were a 4:3 1440x1080 screen I suspect it would display just fine
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Natalie 2019-01-06 16:28
the popup will spill out of the window and should appear normally if you have extra room
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 16:29
The window fills the entire screen at 1440x810. That's not a screenshot of emotracker, it's a screenshot of my entire desktop. It's a 16:9 display.
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Natalie 2019-01-06 16:29
Image attachment
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 16:29
The issue is not that it runs off the bottom of the window, it's that it is too large, vertically, to fit on my screen at all.
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Natalie 2019-01-06 16:29
You... just said you had 2880x1620
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 16:29
"ToxicFrog: Oh, right, I have 2x scaling enabled, so in practice it looks like a 1440x810 screen to software"
16:30
That said, I don't think turning off scaling would help, because either emotracker is DPI-aware and everything gets scaled up to look the same, or it's not dpi-aware and everything is in half size, meaning it now fits on screen but is unreadably tiny.
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Natalie 2019-01-06 16:30
...so you have a ridiculously small display with native resolution 2880x1620, being operated at 1440x810
16:31
this is why we stick to 72dpi, manufacturers
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 16:31
15" is not "ridiculously small" for a laptop, IMO
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Natalie 2019-01-06 16:32
1920x1080 would be perfectly usable at that size without making 32x32 unreasonably tiny.
16:33
The only thing I can suggest to hope for is support for scaling the interface as a whole.
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 16:33
Fair. And I would have gotten 1920x1080 instead if that were an option just because so many programs are so bad at handling high-DPI displays.
16:35
That said...at this screen size and this resolution, all the text, inventory icons, location icons, etc are actually a comfortable size! I wouldn't want to change them. It's just that the decorative chests in the popup/pins take up a huge amount of vertical space.
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Natalie 2019-01-06 16:39
An argument for mini mode, I suppose; downscales of the icons placed alongside the text instead of below it? 🤷
16:40
Alternatively, support for multiple columns?
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-06 17:15
I would love to see either or both of those.
17:16
I actually spend a while playing with overrides to see if I could implement "mini mode", but it looks like the icon size is hard-coded no matter the size of the underlying PNGs.
17:17
I'm now actually playing the game again and this pack has been a great help in figuring out what to do next, so thanks again, @Hamsda
17:17
Of course, of the last 12 locations I checked, 10 were rupees and the 11th was a deku nut, but that's not the pack's fault.
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Cheezinator 2019-01-07 01:48
hey @Gilgatex , not sure if I should report this directly to you or here or in the crossover rando discord, but anyhow, I found a couple of logic bugs in locations.json in your EmoTracker pack (I'm on v 10.1). there are a few spots where you use canFly (returns true with ALTTP Flute) and you most certainly meant canFlySM (IBJ/Space). the two I spotted were Wave Beam Missile and Wave Beam; however, I suspect you should double check the file for other canFly instances that snuck their way into SM. cheers
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Zurai 2019-01-07 03:03
hey, I would like to make a custom pack for the Pug Hud for OoT. But I dont want to use a override. I basically want to have something like this https://i.imgur.com/lCuBqOA.png
Thumbnail
03:03
just for the pug hud, so I can choose between a keysanity layout and a "only items" layout
03:04
is that possible for me as a "normal user" or do I have to be the owner of the package to accomplish that?
03:09
oh nvm, figured that out for now
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LostThePirate 2019-01-07 03:32
Help with customization can be found in #customization-support
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Zurai 2019-01-07 03:38
ups, sorry
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Gilgatex 2019-01-07 06:40
@Cheezinator Thanks. I've actually fixed another spot like that previously so I'm not surprised
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-07 11:23
In @Hamsda 's OOTR pack, why is it that some pickups (like the Chest Game) have a slot next to them to mark what item you found, while others (like the Chicken Game) don't?
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JRJathome 2019-01-07 11:24
I believe those are specific locations that you can find out about via the gossip stone hints.
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-07 11:24
Aaaah.
11:25
I still don't have the Stone of Agony, so the gossip stones are useless to me.
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JRJathome 2019-01-07 11:29
There's also certain locations where the item isn't in a chest. If you're playing the live version, these will show the incorrect model. (For example, any items that were swapped to a vanilla heart piece location still appear as a heart piece until you pick them up.) This was fixed in the current dev build to show the correct item, so Hamsda's pack was updated to account for that.
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-07 11:33
Oh, that is super cool!
11:40
Bug report: having accidentally marked a bean as planted, I can't unmark it. (edited)
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JRJathome 2019-01-07 11:50
In the gear menu, under Tracking, select the Always Allow Chest Manipulation option. That should let you unmark it.
11:51
Hmm. Never mind, I'm wrong. @Hamsda?
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Hamsda 2019-01-07 11:53
yeah I have no idea why it cant be unmarked
11:53
probably because its a hosted item
11:53
sort of a hack
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def_monk 2019-01-08 20:06
@Hamsda Hey. I'm using your pack for doing a randomizer run, and I noticed something. Most Deku Scrubs have their own icon, but the one in the Lake Hylia entrance grotto (inside the fence) uses the chest icon and labels it as the Scrub. Not sure if that is a mistake or something, so I figured I'd mention it.
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Hamsda 2019-01-08 20:07
oh probably forgot to change that one because he's been in longer than the others
20:07
thanks for telling me
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def_monk 2019-01-08 20:08
👍 i assumed it might have been something like that (added before scrubs were their own thing or something). if i come across any others, i'll let you know.
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def_monk 2019-01-08 22:03
ah. i found a small possible logic problem as well. when you have the ruto's letter, it marks everything in jabu-jabu as yellow, and also gives a marker for moving the king. if you move the king, everything gets marked as green. it leaves the letter in your bottle for one, but then manually removing it also hides all of jabu-jabu.
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JRJathome 2019-01-08 22:10
I assume that's intended. There's no real point in removing the letter from your tracker entirely, and it could be confusing to a streamer's audience.
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Hamsda 2019-01-08 22:10
that is intended
22:11
mark initial bottle contents (or just empty bottles and rutos if you don't care)
22:11
king zora is more or less as a reminder for the adult part
22:11
similar to planting beans
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def_monk 2019-01-08 22:11
kk. wasn't sure, since he does take the letter. 👌
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JRJathome 2019-01-08 22:13
Yeah. There's a similar case in the LttP pack where you give the mushroom away, but rather than unmark it on the tracker, you can move to the next stage which has a big ❌ over the icon.
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def_monk 2019-01-08 22:13
yea. thats how the masks are working in OOT.
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ミシウス 2019-01-09 08:42
i can't find where to uninstall packages
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EmoSaru 2019-01-09 08:48
The app itself does not delete files. You can find the packs in Documents/EmoTracker, and delete the zip files you no longer want. Then restart the tracker.
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ミシウス 2019-01-09 08:49
alright, thanks
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Wildcard 2019-01-11 11:42
@Gilgatex Hey, quick question regarding your smalttp combo tracker, i've noticed the meyer and t-rock sections won't "unlock" unless i have all 3 medallions, is there a way to set which medallions i need to unlock the logic for it or do i have to use the Always Allow Chest manipulation setting
11:46
oh i see its right click states on the medallions instead of on the crystal sections, disregard my question
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Gilgatex 2019-01-11 13:16
@Wildcard yeah, that's the way the official ALTTP one works and I just copied it. I can't think of a better way to do it.
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Wildcard 2019-01-11 13:45
ya that makes sense, i just didn't see any legend or helpfile or readme with any of these and i'm new to using the emotracker
13:46
my initial impulse was that i've seen some of the alttp trackers (not the combo ones) have a little medallion symbol over the two dungeon areas on speedgaming so that's why i looked there
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Gilgatex 2019-01-11 13:54
Yeah Speedgaming uses a proprietary tracker.
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Natalie 2019-01-11 14:03
Speedgaming has, to the best of my knowledge, a homebrew web interface for tracker roles to use
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EmoSaru 2019-01-11 15:35
They do, yes, although I have all sorts of things I want to talk with them about in the future. 😉
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-11 16:55
@Hamsda bug report: it seems to be overly pessimistic about Gerudo-related things. I have the longshot and the gerudo card and it's still marked the entire training ground as inaccessible.
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Hamsda 2019-01-11 16:56
you need to free the carpenters
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Natalie 2019-01-11 16:57
the gerudo card functions quite literally only as a ticket to get into the training ground... and that gerudo won't not catch you unless you've already freed the carpenters
16:58
this is vanilla behavior; removing the gerudo card via RBA or cheats will cause the guard to not let you in... because you don't have the card
16:59
..so basically, something you could have learned by asking the OoTR discord 🤔
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-11 17:01
I've also freed the carpenters, that's how I got the card -- I'm playing with card unshuffled.
17:02
(and it listed the carpenters as inaccessible too!)
17:03
The nighttime rooftop skulltula is also listed as inaccessible, even though the rooftop chest isn't.
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EmoSaru 2019-01-11 17:03
Oftentimes, in cases like this, you've likely not tracked something you needed to. It's helpful to post screenshots of the items portion of the tracker.
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-11 17:07
Aha, poking at that was the clue I needed, thank you -- I'm playing the keysanity tracker and had forgotten to track the gerudo fortress keys, so the carpenters were considered inaccessible until I tracked those
17:08
Ticking off the gerudo card in the inventory pane didn't do anything until I also cleared all the carpenter entries and clicked the gerudo symbol under "free the carpenters".
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Natalie 2019-01-11 17:08
you also need to specifically enable the "carpenters rescued" meta item in the Carpenter Rescue location when you do rescue them
17:08
..that said..
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-11 17:09
Which makes sense given the behaviour described above WRT the card not actually being what sets the "gerudo won't capture you" flag.
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Natalie 2019-01-11 17:09
@Hamsda Is there any particular reason why that has to be split into a "chest" object and ticking off a meta item?
17:09
Like, are the events of receiving the item and of completing the rescue two distinct events that one can be triggered without the other?
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ToxicFrog 2019-01-11 17:10
And the rooftop skulltula was listed as inaccessible because that's how "skulltulas: hide/dungeon/all" is implemented and I forgot I had it set to "dungeon".
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Hamsda 2019-01-11 17:26
if you have card shuffled you get an item there natalie
17:26
thats why it has a separate chest
17:27
and for non shuffled its just the card basically
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Natalie 2019-01-11 17:29
..but are [item received] and [bridge rebuilt] actually separatable in any way, or does receiving the item and rebuilding the bridge happen in the same event with no way to get one but not the other (edited)
17:30
i know how shuffle card works, i just want to know why we're using a Generic Item Location and a meta trackable object at the same time
17:30
when it could be reduced to a chest icon that is the meta trackable
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Hamsda 2019-01-11 18:18
because it can't be reduced?
18:19
the meta item happens on the rescue
18:19
and you get an item
18:19
so how would I reduce it to 1?
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Natalie 2019-01-11 18:19
if the events can't be separated, then you can represent the item location by the meta item
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Hamsda 2019-01-11 18:20
no difference ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
18:24
but I should probably make the gerudo rescue sequence breakable to keep in line with the rest ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Deleted User 2019-01-16 21:26
i have a question with the OOT package, closed forest seed, silver scale isn't showing that i can get out of forest, is this intended and i should switch the closed setting manually?
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Hamsda 2019-01-16 21:30
by logic you wont need to go out there even with the scale
21:30
same for bombs and the goron city exit
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Deleted User 2019-01-16 21:31
that doesn't seem to be correct
21:31
but either way, thanks for reply 😄
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-16 21:31
but which OoT pack are you using
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Deleted User 2019-01-16 21:32
i'm using Hamsda's (LOL DIDN'T EVEN SEE THAT hi there dev) Map and Item Tracker
21:33
it might be different since we're doing a cross world one, but we cleared out the kokori forest with no swords
21:33
so he had the scale and i had bombs so we set the tracker to open and continued playing
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-16 21:33
yeah multiworld is a whole different thing
21:33
trackers arent geared towards multiworld
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Natalie 2019-01-16 21:34
..but it also shouldn't change item placements so badly that it breaks logic?
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Deleted User 2019-01-16 21:34
yeah, exactly nat
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Natalie 2019-01-16 21:34
the sword is supposed to be somewhere within Kokiri Forest/Lost Woods/Sacred Forest Meadow/Deku Tree (edited)
21:34
even in multiworld, SOMEONE should get a sword out of that
21:35
even if it's someone else's.
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Deleted User 2019-01-16 21:35
want the spoilers?
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Natalie 2019-01-16 21:35
ask the ootr discord about that one
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Deleted User 2019-01-16 21:35
bongo bongo has P2s word (edited)
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Natalie 2019-01-16 21:36
does any one world have access to anyone's kokiri sword
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Deleted User 2019-01-16 21:36
ah shit i think i fucked something
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Natalie 2019-01-16 21:36
if it does not, then you either generated open forest or found a multiworld bug
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-16 21:36
either way, I'd ask the ZOOTR discord
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Natalie 2019-01-16 21:36
the tracker should not be at fault in this case
21:37
as i believe they've worked hard to solidly nail down Closed Forest logic for the rando, and the tracker should be accurate to that
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Deleted User 2019-01-16 21:37
yeah so the tracker isn't at fault, but the logic still allowed us to leave the closed forest early.
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Natalie 2019-01-16 21:37
take it to their discord and see if they can help you narrow it down to user error, rando error, or tracker not matching rando logic
21:38
okay, so that's not UNUSUAL, per se, but you'll still be guaranteed SOMEONE'S kokiri sword within the forest, which would enable them to logically leave and pick up swords for other players. dig through the spoiler with the ootr discord community, see what you come up with
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Deleted User 2019-01-16 21:39
alright ty!
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-16 21:39
yeah thats multiworld for you. if you were running closed forest by yourself, you'd logically need the clear the deku tree and have sword, shield, and slingshot to get out of the forest
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Natalie 2019-01-16 21:40
if no one finds a kokiri sword within the forest/woods/meadow then something generated against the closed forest paradigm
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Hamsda 2019-01-16 21:45
i mean closed forest for multi is kinda monkaS
21:46
since you are risking one player having to go outside and do like 2 hrs of checks to get the other out by logic
21:46
I dislike closed forest for solo already, in multi its just asking for trouble
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Natalie 2019-01-16 21:46
you may as well navi dive everyone by that point
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Deleted User 2019-01-16 22:30
figured out the problem, for those curious
22:31
our randomizer changed the seed for some reason between player id swaps
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Hamsda 2019-01-16 22:33
if you generate the roms without a patch file, you need to enter a seed
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Deleted User 2019-01-16 22:33
what's weird is i did it earlier for 3 different ones just fine... and now it's not
22:34
i'm gonna an hero brb
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Rikkukun 2019-01-17 00:25
Hi all, is there a way to dim more the icons when they're not active? I sometimes struggle to see if I already got an item or not because of low contrast (Hamsa OOT pack) (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 00:29
Assuming it's not a legacy-format pack, the simplest way to do this is to export an override for the pack's settings.json file. You can set the value of disabled_image_filter there, e.g.
"disabled_image_filter": "grayscale, brightness|0.25",
 (edited)
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Rikkukun 2019-01-17 10:25
Thank you very much @EmoSaru
10:26
I'm a little color blind so this will surely help ^^
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Rikkukun 2019-01-17 10:50
Hmmm, that seems to increase the brightness
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 11:01
Lower it further then (edited)
11:01
I didn’t test that value, just providing an example
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 11:09
Alternatively, it looks like hamsda's pack only dims, doesn't grayscale, by default
11:09
Depending on what's affecting your perception, removing the grayscale, bit may help
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Rikkukun 2019-01-17 11:53
Yeah but I can't seem to lower it
11:54
going to 0.15 or even 0.10 seems to be brighter than what it was before anyway
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 12:16
then you have done something wrong
12:16
copy and paste your settings.json override here
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Rikkukun 2019-01-17 13:13
{ "auto_pin_capturing_locations": false, "auto_unpin_on_clear": true, "layout_swap_left_right": false, "disabled_image_filter": "grayscale, brightness|0.15" }
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 13:14
Running with that on my system dramatically reduces the brightness
13:14
have you tried it without the grayscale option?
13:14
it's possible that you're more sensitive to that
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Rikkukun 2019-01-17 13:15
this is what happens without grayscale
Image attachment
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 13:17
uhhh
13:17
this is what happens on my system
Image attachment
13:18
What OS are you running?
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Rikkukun 2019-01-17 13:18
Windows 7
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 13:18
What version of the tracker are you running? Should be visible in the title bar
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Rikkukun 2019-01-17 13:19
2.1.0.8
13:19
same as yours
13:19
I think it's a language thing
13:19
my OS is in italian
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Natalie 2019-01-17 13:19
Why would language have any effect on it?
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 13:19
That should not have any effect on this
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Natalie 2019-01-17 13:19
I'd be more likely to accuse Aero
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Rikkukun 2019-01-17 13:19
well we use , instead of . to separate decimals
13:20
but I tried with , instead of .
13:20
and nothing happens
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 13:20
hmmm
13:20
can you please try it with brightness|1
13:21
and see what happens?
13:22
Your theory is interesting though, have you tried setting it to english, rebooting, and running to see if that's it?
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Natalie 2019-01-17 13:22
Okay, I just did some testing on my own by switching the decimal separator
13:22
Let me show you 0.15
13:22
https://puu.sh/CygUS.png
Embedded image
13:22
Now I'll switch it back to . like it should be...
13:23
https://puu.sh/CygWa.png
Embedded image
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 13:23
I would expect `brightness|0,15', regardless of locale settings, to produce black
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Natalie 2019-01-17 13:23
No change to settings.json override
13:23
So language does actually affect it here
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 13:23
the fact that the locale decimal separator is affecting things at all is interesting
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Rikkukun 2019-01-17 13:24
With brightness|1 everything is like it was activated
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 13:24
that's what I would expect
13:24
I just wanted to make sure it wasn't definitely in the image processing code
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Natalie 2019-01-17 13:25
it kind of makes sense? but then... hang on, doing the 0,15 test with comma decimals
13:25
behaves as 0 brightness
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 13:26
That's because filters are a comma separated list
13:26
so the number is being parsed from brightness|0
13:26
with 15 failing to parse as the next command (edited)
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Natalie 2019-01-17 13:26
fair
13:27
..but then the real question--is it failing to parse 0.15 as a valid "number" with the comma decimal?
13:27
the brightness filter with no numeric modifier produces the same result as 1.0 with period decimal (edited)
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Rikkukun 2019-01-17 13:27
I don't think that my system expects , instead of .
13:27
since it works with .
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 13:29
I actually have no idea, and won't until I can get home and do some testing
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Natalie 2019-01-17 13:29
so i'd chalk this one up to the numeric value modifying the filter not being processed as a number if its format doesn't match the OS' expected decimal separator
13:29
since it processes 0.15 as NaN, it would just set brightness to 1
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 13:29
it's possible, but I'm going to have to debug later
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Natalie 2019-01-17 13:30
It seems like the most likely possibility at this point
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 13:37
yeah, so float.TryParse actually fails gracefully, so we return the image unmodified
13:37
Not sure what's causing the blown-out look on @Rikkukun's system
13:38
regardless, I know how to fix it, but I'll have to patch the tracker to do it
13:38
which wasn't on my roadmap that soon
13:38
so I'll have to see what I can do
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Rikkukun 2019-01-17 13:40
Thank you! To restore the tracker's original brightness I just delete the override file?
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EmoSaru 2019-01-17 13:40
correct
13:40
then hit F5 to reload (in the tracker) (edited)
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Rikkukun 2019-01-17 13:41
Perfect
13:41
Time for some rando
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-17 19:45
So @Herreteman , those five rings on the Seasons tracker are ones that would allow for sequence breaks and stuff like that?
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Hamsda 2019-01-17 23:38
is it maybe making the brightness to 15 instead of 0.15? that would get you this blown out effect
23:39
and funny that I didn't notice as a german, we use , as the decimal delimiter and . as thousands delimiter as well, but my os is english 😮
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Herreteman 2019-01-18 02:16
No @Sal the Dragon, they are the ones that may be required to use by logic
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Ninban 2019-01-18 07:30
float.TryParse always defaults to the system locale, unless you use the overloaded version and specify a locale. This trap sucks and I fall in it every time too haha
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EmoSaru 2019-01-18 10:53
InvariantCulture to the rescue, lol (edited)
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Rikkukun 2019-01-19 06:18
So any new ideas for my brightness problem? 😥
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Natalie 2019-01-19 11:31
You could change your decimal separator to . temporarily to get the intended behavior
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EmoSaru 2019-01-19 12:32
It’s going to require an application update to fix. I’m debating whether or not to release a small patch for it, or wait for the next significant release.
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EmoSaru 2019-01-20 22:18
@Rikkukun FYI, as of the update tonight, your brightness customization issue should be fixed.
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Rikkukun 2019-01-21 00:22
Thank you so much!
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-21 07:03
@Frostbite3030 Well in inverted you can walk/swim straight to Ice Palace so....
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Natalie 2019-01-21 07:09
But can you lift the large blocks inside gloveless?
07:12
This never actually comes up in vanilla gameplay (and I've yet to encounter an aga1-flippers-hookshot west DW seed) so I don't know whether Nintendo accounted for that situation
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Hamsda 2019-01-21 07:30
pretty sure you need gloves for that one unlike the one in TT
07:30
seen people do OWG seeds and forget about that block
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Ninban 2019-01-21 08:01
You need the power gloves just like the one in TT
08:01
But Titans have no use inside
08:02
Although going by TT's layout those blocks were probably designed to be liftable only by Titan's Mitts it was not implemented in the game
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Natalie 2019-01-21 08:04
nintendo pls
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Gilgatex 2019-01-21 08:04
The one in TT you don't need a power glove. You can go around it.
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Natalie 2019-01-21 08:05
But that's not the point
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Gilgatex 2019-01-21 08:05
aren't we talking logic? it's not logically required
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Natalie 2019-01-21 08:05
The question is whether you can lift that type of block at all
08:05
because there is one physically obstructing the pit to Kholdstare
08:06
and it would be unlikely for nintendo to program two different completely identical liftable blocks
08:06
not unheard of, but unlikely
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Frostbite3030 2019-01-21 08:07
You need the glove to lift the block to check the two chests on the right side that are also hammer locked (edited)
08:07
and you need the glove for the kholdstare drop
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fylion 2019-01-21 08:20
Confirming, you need gloves (but not mitts) to lift the blocks. Very rarely in aga-required-for-DW-access seeds, you'll try to lift the block in TT and notice it. Slightly more likely is that you'll try to lift that big rock in Spike Cave and get stuck. Realistically , though, you'll only notice it when you get to Ice or TT in Entrance.
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Frostbite3030 2019-01-21 08:21
It comes up fairly often in inverted as well
08:21
I noticed it today trying to pick up both rocks in IP without gloves, after i failed to pick up the first one I was curious about the second one because you simply always have gloves outside of entrance
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Hamsda 2019-01-21 08:31
oh yeah im dumb, I was thinking titans in TT
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EmoSaru 2019-01-21 12:19
This will get fixed - thanks for the report!
12:19
Also in TT, you DO need a weapon to go around it. That said, bombs are a weapon, and not logically considered, so that requirement is always satisfied.
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Ninban 2019-01-21 12:22
Plus there are pots in the room anyway
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EmoSaru 2019-01-21 12:23
Yep
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-01-21 13:27
Note that going upstairs restores pots and not enemies Bombs entirely unneeded (edited)
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64bit_link 2019-01-21 14:06
@Gilgatex is there some other requirement for clearing the castle dungeon/escape items other than tier 1 sword, lamp, and bombs? Was watching a stream where your tracker marked it as having an item out of logic and was curious why.
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Gilgatex 2019-01-21 14:07
The back half may be key locked and requires a glove to get to from the other side
14:07
I can't split the chests up because they are in the same pool
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64bit_link 2019-01-21 14:08
ok cool ty
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Ninban 2019-01-21 16:36
Blind's house marker should be a bit more to the left (at "x": 255) instead of its current location which places it over Sahasrahla's wife house. I'm picky over 50px and I assume it 👀
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TheBookworm2 2019-01-22 00:35
found a bug in the oracle of age pack. in the Nuun High lands When you get the carpenters, the map tracker shows the trackers for them in the wrong map, i was using Flying Bear for the animal mount but it is there for all three
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-22 10:05
I don't know Ages, but that still doesn't make much sense. What do you mean, it shows the trackers for them in the wrong map? And what do you mean, you used Moosh but it is there for all three
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Herreteman 2019-01-22 13:54
@TheBookworm2 That's intentional, as a way to rescue them is using Tune of Currents from the palace. To make the tedious process of doing that easier, I put them in both maps
13:55
You could say I only put the workers as locations because you can rescue them that way, actually (edited)
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TheBookworm2 2019-01-23 23:21
Found A logic flaw in the Oracle of seasons tracker. The tracker will not appear for the summer spirit unless you have the flippers When in fact if playing normally you wouldn't have to flippers at that point
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TheBookworm2 2019-01-23 23:39
The same problem for dungeon 3 poison moth’s lair
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TheBookworm2 2019-01-23 23:46
Never mind forgot to check something of that I already had
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-23 23:56
always make sure you've accurately tracked your items before making a bug report lol
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Natalie 2019-01-24 00:00
there's nothing we can really do to fix PEBKAC unless there's an actual usability/accessibility issue
00:00
🤷
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Herreteman 2019-01-24 04:55
"Not having that normally in vanilla at that point" is definitely not a valid bug description. The Seasons randomizer works as a series of possible paths to a single area regardless of how you'd get there in a normal playthrough. Consider that and accurately mark everything in your tracker before reporting things, as in many cases an item like Flippers can be the difference between one path or another being valid @TheBookworm2
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RainyDay 2019-01-27 05:45
Where can I get v.2.2 lttpr map
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-27 11:01
You just wait for a pack update....
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Natalie 2019-01-27 12:16
@Hamsda Fun question: judging by your patch note, OoTR unremoved a Fire Temple lock for Keysanity seeds. This will affect users who like using the Keysanity variant to track keys (for item accessibility) without actually playing Keysanity. Is this door replacement a hard requirement in keysanity, or is it a minor option? If it's hard required, do you plan on a minor option for that? (edited)
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Hamsda 2019-01-27 12:42
yeah the lock is just back in keysanity (i totally forgot about that, it has been back for months) and no, I do not plan to support that in any way
12:42
it is kinda weird considering the lock they removed in water stays away in keysanity (though admittedly nobody ever opens that one)
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Natalie 2019-01-27 12:43
that's inconsistent as fuck tbh
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Hamsda 2019-01-27 12:44
the fire one is mostly removed to make the dungeon/key layout not exactly the same every time, which is not a concern in keysanity ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Natalie 2019-01-27 12:45
wasn't it removed specifically so that megaton wasn't vanilla/locked exactly behind an item at megaton
12:45
oh well 🤷
12:46
guess it's time to play more everythingsanity
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Hamsda 2019-01-27 12:51
nah if you didn't have that door removed, you would always have 5/6 of the first chests be keys by logic because of worst spending
12:51
it's similar to how MQ shadow the deadhand part of the dungeon right at the beginning is locked behind all 6 small keys
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Natalie 2019-01-27 12:51
i thought i walked through that logic once and it was impossible to put megaton before vanilla location because it was literally impossible to lay out keys otherwise
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Hamsda 2019-01-27 12:52
its not about megaton
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Natalie 2019-01-27 12:52
because there was literally not enough item locations
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Hamsda 2019-01-27 12:52
it's about key placement
12:52
it would have almost the same key layout every time and all the items in the back
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Rockman 2019-01-28 04:50
hi, i got a customized pack i want to use but when i put it in the package folder replacing original one, it still is the original package and not the customized one, what can i do about this ?
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Ninban 2019-01-28 04:53
if you customized an existing pack, it would be better to put the modified files (and directories) in the override folder (edited)
04:54
if you're trying to make it a new package on the software, give it a different folder name and make sure the manifest file is properly set (especially the package_uid I guess which should be unique given its name)
04:55
and did you try restarting emotracker
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Dean 2019-01-28 12:53
How Do i get the tracker to track my items
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-28 13:01
One channel is enough
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Ninban 2019-01-29 15:20
Why is there two chests at the VoO tresaure game in your standard and keysanity packs?
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Rockman 2019-01-31 03:59
where is override folder ? i don't see any
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Ninban 2019-01-31 04:48
it gets created when you override a file from a pack
04:49
My Documents\EmoTracker\user_overrides
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Natalie 2019-01-31 06:04
there's an option to open the override folder from within EmoTracker
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Rockman 2019-01-31 09:14
i created the user_overrides and put zip files in here, i did "open override folder" in emotracker but it cant open a zip file
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JRJathome 2019-01-31 09:15
Yeah, the program only uses zips for the actual packs. You'll have to unzip your override.
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Rockman 2019-01-31 09:16
what i dont understand is the other who gave me the custom stuff just needed to replace zip files in the original folder
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Hamsda 2019-01-31 09:17
thats not an override then, that's just replacing the pack
09:17
and will get deleted every time you update
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Rockman 2019-01-31 09:17
but when i replace it is still the original one
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Hamsda 2019-01-31 09:17
just use the override system in the tracker to export the file you actually want to override
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Rockman 2019-01-31 09:17
buy what do i open ?
09:17
there is tons of files in the zip
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Ninban 2019-01-31 09:22
You export the files you want to override
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JRJathome 2019-01-31 09:28
Depending on how the zip is setup, you might be able to just unzip it into the overrides folder. Could I get a screenshot of what's in the zip file?
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 20:57
@Hamsda i downloaded your ootrmaptracker and applied it to emotracker, but ive tried changing the dungeon to master quest by clicking it and it seems to not be changing and not going bold. Not only that but nothing changes in the dungeon
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Hamsda 2019-02-03 20:58
the label won't go bold, it goes inverted
20:58
also if you had the dungeon pinned, thats not how it works
20:59
its a separate dungeon on the map that will only show up if you switch
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 20:59
i didnt have it pinned until after i clicked it
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Natalie 2019-02-03 20:59
this is what happens when people give wrong advice ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 20:59
oh
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Natalie 2019-02-03 21:00
the technical side of it is that the two dungeons occupy adjacent physical locations on the tracker map, but one of them is forced to be not viewable
21:00
you toggle whether the normal or the MQ version is the one that is visible by clicking on the dungeon name in the item grid
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:00
i just clicked it no difference no new one shows
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Natalie 2019-02-03 21:00
if you have the normal version of a dungeon pinned, its locations will become marked as red (inaccessible) when you switch it to MQ
21:01
okay maybe it's time for you to take a screenshot of your tracker
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:01
Image attachment
21:02
did i happen to download the wrong version or something?
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Hamsda 2019-02-03 21:02
none of the dungeons are switched to mq
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:02
i know and i clicked the label for lake hylia
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Hamsda 2019-02-03 21:02
wot?
21:03
you click on the label in the item side
21:03
next to the medallions
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:03
ya maybe i should try to relaunch
21:03
now it works
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EmoSaru 2019-02-03 21:03
🤔
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:04
which is weird
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Natalie 2019-02-03 21:04
I'm going to second that :thinking:
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:04
so i think it mightve been something when i switched from another tracker
21:04
well thank you
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Natalie 2019-02-03 21:05
🤷 Another mystery for the ages
21:05
so what did you think was going to happen when you clicked on the lon lon ranch label
21:05
because there certainly isn't a dungeon there
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Sal the Dragon 2019-02-03 21:07
Yeah you don't click on the actual map lol you click the abbreviation on the tracker side
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:07
i was clicking on the the words on the left before not the map
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Natalie 2019-02-03 21:08
There is no "Lake Hylia" label over there.
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:08
but a restart fixed it
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Natalie 2019-02-03 21:08
It's "Water".
21:08
<.<
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:08
i call it lake hylia
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EmoSaru 2019-02-03 21:08
Let's just be happy that it's working for them now
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:09
but anyways ive tried clicking that at begining then changed to the words then tried clicking all buttons but its working now so oh well
21:09
also sorry i have a bit of autism
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EmoSaru 2019-02-03 21:10
There is no need to ever apologize for that. Like I said, I'm just happy you've got it working now. ❤
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Hamsda 2019-02-03 21:11
glad you got it working 😃
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:12
ya again thanks ill tell you if i find anything else
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:20
so is it a glitch that the chest sign next to after spinning log is not grayed i mean the text is blue but i cant get it right now cause no song of time
21:21
seems like their is a couple like that
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EmoSaru 2019-02-03 21:21
Blue text is for "inspectable" things. It means you can either see what the item is there (and mark it using the empty square) or you have marked stone of agony and can mark the item there from a hint
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:22
oh
21:22
ya sorry some of that wasnt very clear to me
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EmoSaru 2019-02-03 21:23
If you are confused about any of the colors, there is a generic reference in #faq
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mikemik44 2019-02-03 21:23
thanks again
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EmoSaru 2019-02-03 21:23
np
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Natalie 2019-02-03 21:25
If memory serves, the MQ Deku Tree has a chest after the spinning spiked log that is hidden within a Song of Time block. This is so egregiously inconvenient that I can see it having a special hint location.
21:25
You can ask about what "good hint" text refers to that location in the OoTR Discord.
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ChloeIvy 2019-02-04 09:55
Is the WW Item n' Map Tracker broken for anyone else?
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JRJathome 2019-02-04 09:56
Yeah, I'm seeing it too.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-04 10:33
Broken how?
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JRJathome 2019-02-04 10:37
Image attachment
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EmoSaru 2019-02-04 10:38
Welp, yeah, I'd call that broken
10:38
Looking now
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EmoSaru 2019-02-04 10:56
Fixed with the latest update
11:00
It was especially broken due to rampant usage of spaces and punctuation in image filenames, which was broken with the last update (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-04 11:23
Tagging @ChloeIvy just to make sure they see the fix notice
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ChloeIvy 2019-02-04 11:24
oh I did and it works now!
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EmoSaru 2019-02-04 11:24
👍
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Rikkukun 2019-02-10 06:03
@Hamsda the new icon for Spiritual Stones is awesome! Is there a way to default Stone of Agony to off?
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Hamsda 2019-02-10 06:08
you could use overrides
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Cynas 2019-02-10 07:46
Is there a resource somewhere if I wanted to develop my own pack?
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Ninban 2019-02-10 07:52
The best resource is looking at existing packs I think
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Hamsda 2019-02-10 10:31
currently yeah
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Cynas 2019-02-10 11:21
Alrighty, thanks folks!
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LostThePirate 2019-02-10 13:04
@Hamsda With the renaming, the Boulder Maze checks in Fire are pretty confusing. "Boulder Maze Lower" for the south one on the first level and "Boulder Maze Upper" for the north one on the second level are a bit odd, but with "Boulder Maze Side" for the north one on the first level...?!
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Natalie 2019-02-10 13:06
it's almost like there is a lower and upper half to boulder maze
13:06
and a side room
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LostThePirate 2019-02-10 13:07
But there isn't one to the side - there are 2 to the north on two different levels, and one to the south on the first level.
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Natalie 2019-02-10 13:09
In the boulder maze there are two checks, one on the lower level and one on the upper level
13:10
There is also a side room to the north of the boulder maze
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LostThePirate 2019-02-10 13:24
I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong; I'm saying it's confusing.
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Hamsda 2019-02-10 14:31
again, its just how the spoiler log is named
14:32
and I don't think its all that confusing, two of them are actually in the maze, one on the bottom one on the top, and one is in a room off to the side behind a door
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WillardJBradley 2019-02-11 01:50
Sweet smrpg pack, is there a resource on what everything means on the tracker
01:50
or could it have info pop up when you hover over it with your mouse like some of the other packs? (edited)
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beenieweenie 2019-02-11 01:51
That is something I could integrate, learning as I go 😃
01:51
I can throw together a readme real quick though, one sec
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WillardJBradley 2019-02-11 01:53
👌
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beenieweenie 2019-02-11 01:57
https://pastebin.com/Uxfdw4FP
SMRPG tracker notes - Pastebin.com
Thumbnail
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EmoSaru 2019-02-11 01:58
As far as I can tell, it has tooltips
01:58
FYI tooltips for items display the item name, they just take a while to show up so they aren't distracting
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WillardJBradley 2019-02-11 01:58
oh hey, it does
01:58
just takes a year
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beenieweenie 2019-02-11 01:58
i was kind of wondering that myself
01:59
once they're there, they pop up quickly though. nice
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EmoSaru 2019-02-11 01:59
yeah
02:00
it's so they don't pop up randomly for experienced users
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Natalie 2019-02-11 02:06
...a Super Mario RPG randomizer? Well, that's an interesting concept. I'll have to look into that.
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WillardJBradley 2019-02-11 02:08
open mode seems neato
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beenieweenie 2019-02-11 02:08
The active development is in beta right now. It currently randomizes stats for characters and bosses, where star pieces are located, and a bunch of other stuff. Open mode is where the fun is at
02:09
Coming very soon is boss shuffling and chest randomization. https://randomizer-beta.smrpgspeedruns.com/randomize
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Natalie 2019-02-11 02:09
oh cool, a link.
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WillardJBradley 2019-02-11 02:10
this and dark souls rando are on my radar (edited)
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Ketris 2019-02-11 02:41
@Hamsda If I can't get through Child or Adult Spirit from the entrance, why do some of the chests show as collectable? It'd be impossible to get a key child-side to go up the climb without collecting child left/right, and I don't have silvers for adult entry at all. Keysanity is not being used on the tracker and not part of the seed. (edited)
Image attachment
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Natalie 2019-02-11 02:49
this may be a leftover of bombchus in logic being a switch (where if it was off you could purchase bombchus if you had a bomb bag)
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Ketris 2019-02-11 02:50
bombchus wouldn't do anything in this situation
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Natalie 2019-02-11 02:50
yes it would
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Ketris 2019-02-11 02:50
i have no ranged weapon to hit the crystal to drop the bridge in lower child left
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Natalie 2019-02-11 02:50
child left is accessible by throwing a bombchu up across the ceiling
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Ketris 2019-02-11 02:51
that's.... a very odd expectation, never seen/heard of that strat
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Natalie 2019-02-11 02:51
but without any bombchus, you can't buy bombchus from bombchu shop, so you can't actually cross child left that way currently
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Ketris 2019-02-11 02:51
i'd be wallet locked from the purchase anyway, no shopsanity and carpet merchant is 200
02:52
i threw ~20 bombs hoping one would manage to hit the crystal but no dice
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Natalie 2019-02-11 02:52
bombchu shop has a 5 bombchu pack for cheap, but you need to find bombchus to open the shop
02:52
i wonder what item is actually enabling those checks
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Ketris 2019-02-11 02:52
and even so, if chus were the solution, those chests should be "available" from bombs also (left/right lower child)
02:53
unmarking bombs from the tracker leaves child climb lit as accessible
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Natalie 2019-02-11 02:53
again, the bombchu shop won't open without bombchus, with the merge of "bombchus in logic" as a permanent feature
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Ketris 2019-02-11 02:54
is there a way to hookshot the child reward hand from outside on the beanplant?
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Natalie 2019-02-11 02:54
oh, but wait... you can win bombchus from bombchu bowling
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Ketris 2019-02-11 02:54
that's the only other thing i can think this expects of me
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Natalie 2019-02-11 02:54
go do that
02:54
bombchus is third prize in the sequence
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Ketris 2019-02-11 02:54
only the first 2 prizes are part of logic tho?
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Natalie 2019-02-11 02:54
still, definitely a logic issue in the tracker 🤔
02:55
...unless bombchu bowling was changed to not unlock without bombchus, so i don't know
02:56
can you do it with a bomb bag still?
02:57
oh well. still, those checks are not in logic without the ability to check child left/right, i know that much, so tracker issue
02:58
also, don't use the hookshot as a child. that's a softlock.
02:58
longshot could get you to the chest from the bean i think
02:59
🤷
02:59
figure out if any item actually turns off those checks i guess
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Ketris 2019-02-11 03:00
none of that was the issue, non-keysanity tracker assumes you have all keys at all times essentially
03:01
when it should be assuming you have X checks completed number of keys at most
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Natalie 2019-02-11 03:01
but access to child left/right should be considered in access rules for child climb
03:02
so if no item turns off child climb, then the tracker logic issue is child climb doesn't check child left/right access rules
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Ketris 2019-02-11 03:03
yeah it doesn't turn off until you disable the warp song
03:04
it figures as soon as child can warp there they can go up, regardless of if they can get to the "up" part first
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Natalie 2019-02-11 03:05
may also be a case of mistakenly conflating keysanity and non-keysanity logics through reusing between variants. shrug.
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Ketris 2019-02-11 03:11
yeah in the future i just need to use the keysanity version for everything i guess, it at least gets that i cant walk through locked doors lol
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Natalie 2019-02-11 03:12
keysanity returns the locked door in fire temple lobby behind hammer totem
03:12
stupidly enough
03:12
so even that can be inaccurate
03:13
but you should be able to write an override for that if you really want
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Hamsda 2019-02-11 03:50
it is not a logic issue, it is just that the non keysanity pack doesn't take key logic at all into account
03:51
so yes, without keysanity you cant reach a single key so you cant actually reach those chests
03:52
but at the same time, I can't just make them appear reachable based on if you can access the 2 on lower child, because those might not contain a key either
03:52
a bit of knowledge is still required by the user 😉
03:53
(and if you have chus on the tracker, it will show the lower child ones as sequence breakable)
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Natalie 2019-02-11 07:20
if you literally can't reach any item location which could contain a key, then child climb should not be "fully accessible" under any circumstance
07:20
if one side is accessible, then it should be "possible/breakable"; if both are accessible then you enable the full kit
07:21
so yes, there is a logic issue
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Link2006 2019-02-11 14:48
Just updated Hamsda's pack and cannot load my OoTR save file anymore, didn't know it would break compatibility 😦 (edited)
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Ketris 2019-02-11 14:51
hm, yeah apparently updates do that, good to know... x.x
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LostThePirate 2019-02-11 14:51
It's in the #faq
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Link2006 2019-02-11 14:59
oh okay, is there a way to revert it
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EmoSaru 2019-02-11 15:26
No
15:26
We don’t maintain a version history for packs
15:27
You could check your save file for the version and see if the pack author has a backup of the zip
15:27
But other than that, o
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Link2006 2019-02-11 15:47
rooPog oh hey i fixed it by downloading an older version on github yay
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Hamsda 2019-02-11 22:39
yeah all my versions should be on git for cases like that
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Lechtansi 2019-02-15 11:18
hey emo, i just saw that your LTTP pack got updated. Is there a changelog? I have overrides and I want to make sure I don't break anything
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JRJathome 2019-02-15 11:22
As far as I know, she just added support for a feature coming in the next update. But I could be wrong.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-15 11:27
☝️
11:29
There have been no user facing changes of significance. Depending on how significant your changes are, and if you’ve made functional changes to items or locations, you may run into issues with using the new feature. But I will be posting about that when it’s released.
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Lechtansi 2019-02-15 11:55
basically i just added some items, so when the new version is released ill just re-add them to the bottom of items.json
11:55
i also tried to separate out zora / zora ledge because i keep forgetting the logical requirements are different for zora and the ledge, but that broke more than it fixed so i didn't try to finish it
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EmoSaru 2019-02-15 11:59
Any changes to locations will absolutely fail to function with the new feature. Adding additional items is fine, so long as you didn't touch the existing items, but you will find that only the items I defined will work with the new feature.
12:00
It's possible for users to make items changes work with the new feature, but it will require scripting.
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Lechtansi 2019-02-15 12:01
yeah. all i've added is 2 combo icons for my broadcast view and chest counters for the dungeons
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RyanSaysJif 2019-02-16 08:25
Copy from general for the sake of having the issue in the right spot. OoT Randomizer showing bean patch GS as yellow when the bottle is in inventory https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386961931988369421/546361704397799474/unknown.png (edited)
Embedded image
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Hamsda 2019-02-16 08:34
oh yeah I see my mistake
08:34
if you mark ZL it should probably go to white
08:35
its looking at access to king zora because of a potential rutos letter bottle
08:35
will fix, thanks for reporting
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RyanSaysJif 2019-02-16 08:36
Does every "generic grotto gossip stone" give the same hint?
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Hamsda 2019-02-16 08:38
yup
08:39
they should all go away if you mark one
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RyanSaysJif 2019-02-16 08:40
Okay thanks, I was going to ask about them all disappearing next lol
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ミシウス 2019-02-17 21:48
a pack recently updated, and now my json save doesn't work
21:48
is there a way to fix this?
21:49
faq seems to say that there is no fix, is this still true? (i did try to edit the version in the json file) (edited)
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Gilgatex 2019-02-17 21:52
that's more of a #general-support question unless you have a question about a specific pack
21:53
the packs themselves don't touch the save system
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EmoSaru 2019-02-17 21:56
Updating a pack invalidates saves
21:57
if you want to tempt fate, you can manually edit the pack version in your save file to match the pack's manifest
21:57
depending on what they changed, it may or may not work
21:57
but updating packs before finishing a playthrough is specifically discouraged for this reason
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Kelik 2019-02-17 22:00
hey emo, using your pack, is it normal for me to see spectacle rock cave as obtainable if i dont have the flute or lantern in ALttP keysanity?
22:00
@EmoSaru
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EmoSaru 2019-02-17 22:01
do you have a glove, and is it yellow?
22:01
if so, absolutely
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Kelik 2019-02-17 22:01
yeah i do.
22:01
hmm
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EmoSaru 2019-02-17 22:01
dark rooms are sequence breaks
22:01
you can walk up there in the dark if you know what you're doing
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Kelik 2019-02-17 22:01
yeah i know
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EmoSaru 2019-02-17 22:01
that's why it's yellow and not green
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Kelik 2019-02-17 22:02
oh
22:02
derp
22:02
ok
22:02
my bad
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EmoSaru 2019-02-17 22:02
np
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Kelik 2019-02-17 22:02
just realized it was yellow
22:02
thanks as always for answering patiently
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EmoSaru 2019-02-17 22:02
happy to help
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Ninban 2019-02-18 18:23
Got a bug in the lttpr map tracker. Let's say I start from a state where the TR medallion is identified but not yet obtained (with other parts of accessing the dungeon all okay), and get the medallion. TR lights up like it should, but Mimic Cave stays unaccessible until the next interaction with the tracker (item or location clear). The same thing happens in reverse - if I remove the medallion, TR becomes inaccessible but mimic cave stays lit
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EmoSaru 2019-02-18 18:31
I will take a look, sounds like an ordering issue. Which variant? (edited)
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Ninban 2019-02-18 18:31
Standard one
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EmoSaru 2019-02-18 18:32
K, thanks for the report
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EmoSaru 2019-02-18 18:48
I'm not able to reproduce this. Do you have any location overrides that might be affecting your results?
18:48
And are you on the latest version of the pack?
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Ninban 2019-02-18 18:49
Yo, I was just realizing this too
18:49
It's my override
18:49
So nevermind
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EmoSaru 2019-02-18 18:49
No worries, I'm honestly just glad what I'm seeing makes sense lol
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Natalie 2019-02-18 18:50
I'm curious what the override was for, incidentally. 🤔
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Ninban 2019-02-18 18:51
I added sequence breaks a while back
18:51
But I think Emo added them to the pack since then (or at least I told her a long time ago so whatever lol)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-18 18:52
depends what they were, lol
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Ninban 2019-02-18 18:52
some dumb net+bottle for fairy revivals to go to east dark world
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EmoSaru 2019-02-18 18:52
Definitely haven't added that one
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Ninban 2019-02-18 18:53
But they're useless since Qirn found out you can just use bombs to fake flippers east of the King's tomb in dw (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-18 18:53
yeah, and it's easier too lol
18:53
haven't added that one either though, since it's not super useful for the whole dark world to immediately turn yellow
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Ninban 2019-02-18 18:54
i'll redo my override 👀
18:54
It can actually be useful in inverted, opens up much more of the world
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EmoSaru 2019-02-18 18:55
I didn't mean to say it wasn't useful
18:55
just that logical information-wise
18:55
it's a HUGE break
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Natalie 2019-02-18 18:56
it's not like cracking open a couple of locations with one trick
18:56
it's a lot of locations
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EmoSaru 2019-02-18 18:56
It's more just about like, what is meaningful to the majority of players without being distracting
18:57
if I ever add that type of thing, it will be behind a setting of some sort
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Natalie 2019-02-18 18:57
a full-on logic training suite disguised as a location tracker. useful to the right people, but an extreme layer of complexity
18:58
"this is what you can do with these items and these techs"
18:58
The Metroid Prime packages end up like that by sheer necessity, I hear.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-18 18:59
My approach with LTTP in general, because I think it's true, is that most people who should be considering those types of breaks/tech are the people who are not reliant on the map tracker for any kind of information anyway
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deserteagle417 2019-02-18 19:31
Yea, the only reason I use a map tracker is because I pretty much forget everything immediately all the time
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Tekky 2019-02-18 19:45
Honestly me' (edited)
19:45
I need to start doing runs without my map at some point
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EmoSaru 2019-02-18 19:55
FYI, I run with a map tracker, as a memory aid
19:56
But I know enough about the game to do mentally track things where I ignore what the map is telling me
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Tekky 2019-02-18 20:28
I mean, I do the same for OoT, I just want to do it to reinforce my knowledge again, since I feel I'm getting rusty on logic.
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Lechtansi 2019-02-18 21:48
@EmoSaru is the sequence break bigger than being able to get to east DW without flippers, aga or hammer?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-18 21:49
You say that like it’s a small thing. Regardless, it’s not a glitch that’s in common enough usage, nor one that’s relevant often enough, to make default behavior.
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Lechtansi 2019-02-18 21:50
i'm not saying its not, just the way you described it as "the whole dark world being yellow" i was wondering if it was bigger than what i understood
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EmoSaru 2019-02-18 21:51
If you have dark world access at all, more or less the whole dark world aside from east dark world is already lit up
21:51
There’s more useful information being delivered if east dark world is off by default than if it’s yellow.
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Lechtansi 2019-02-18 21:52
totally got that.
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キノ 2019-02-19 10:01
why the heck is this showing up as green
10:01
{ "name": "Up Jab", "map_locations": [ { "map": "worldMap", "x": 2416, "y": 644 } ], "sections": [ { "name": "Up Jab", "item_count": 1 } ], "access_rules": [ "$sala,$a1000_coins", "[$sala]" ] },
10:02
if $sala resolves to true, but $a1000_coins does not
10:02
it ought to be yellow, yes?
10:03
if it's {$sala} it resolves to blue
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Derrick 2019-02-19 10:03
what program are you using. I have notpad++ but I like the sexy coloring
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 10:03
First of all, Lua expressions for logic return integers, not bools (edited)
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キノ 2019-02-19 10:04
well yeah
10:04
i was using 'resolves to true' as a shorthand for 'returns 1'
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 10:04
Okay
10:04
You area also doing sequence break wrong if that’s your intent
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キノ 2019-02-19 10:05
it is
10:05
what is the correct way?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 10:05
It would be “$sala,[$a1000_coins]”
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キノ 2019-02-19 10:05
ahhh i see
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 10:05
And that would be all you need
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キノ 2019-02-19 10:05
got it
10:05
that makes my code easier anyway
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JRJathome 2019-02-19 10:06
@Derrick The coloring you see above is a discord thing. However, you can have something similar with VS Code.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 10:06
Also, this is in the wrong forum.
10:07
Questions like this should be in customization support or the other channel you have access to.
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キノ 2019-02-19 10:07
err, yes, so it is
10:07
oops
10:07
apologies
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Derrick 2019-02-19 10:07
My bad.. Sorry @EmoSaru
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 10:08
It’s all good
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キノ 2019-02-19 10:09
as for the program, incidentally, it isn't a program that does that highlighting in discord
10:10
you do the three ` and just make your first characters on the first line the program you're coding in
10:10
for example, ` three times and then json, then a newline and your content (then three to close it out) (edited)
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Espeon 2019-02-19 20:07
wind waker tracker bug: DRC big key chest is in logic with (leaf || ice arrows), grapple and 1 small key; instead the tracker seems to strictly require 4 keys to get there, without taking into account the leaf (if this isn't a bug please feel free to laugh at me for not knowing anything about ww but i did get a small key in DRCBK)
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Natalie 2019-02-19 20:09
i swear there's been arguments about that chest for years now
20:09
but i'll be damned if i remember the last decision that was made on it
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Espeon 2019-02-19 20:15
Dragon Roost Cavern - Big Key Chest: Need: Can Access Dragon Roost Cavern & DRC Small Key x1 & ( (DRC Small Key x4 & Can Cut Down Hanging DRC Platform) | Deku Leaf | Ice Arrows ) & Grappling Hook
copied straight from the randomizer source
Exported 1,894 message(s)